To hope that some people now understand that it's not somebody's fault they're poor?

[Moomin8]

All of a sudden loads of people have had to claim UC

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/24/britain-benefits-rishi-sunak-claimants-austerity?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Torsten Bell, head of the Resolution Foundation, says people on £50,000 salaries have been anxiously asking him about benefits rates. They’re in for a shock, he says.” Funny, that: before this crisis, those doing alright were adamant that benefit rates were too high. Now, they’re worried it’s the opposite.

I think there is rather a lot of gloating and schadenfreude going on at the moment among some of you.

A basic income (Uc) for people who have never contributed is right. But people who have paid tax and NI should receive extra when they need it.

And how much tax should someone have paid before they're 'worthy' of extra support?

I don't understand. You think that there's a comparison to be drawn between the employment market during business as usual and the current state of emergency where only a handful fo businesses are allowed to remain open?

@MarginalGain

My point was that adverse conditions are not the fault of the person they are affecting. And people should stop looking down their noses at others because you never know what's around the corner.

As far as the news article goes, some people evidently think benefits are too high until they themselves need them. And then they are too low.

No, I haven't read the full thread, but just the first page, and in my opinion, while it is not enough to live on there is still hope for able working people.

For disabled people, they have to wait 2 years for their benefits, DWP send out people to assess bed bound people.

But no people are not going to change their opinion on people on benefits, or the benefit system its self because everyone knows a person, who knows a person who has 15 kids, never worked a day in their lives and the council has given them a mansion with an indoor swimming pool, free carpet and a goat

For a good number of people it is entirely their fault they are poor.

Having a child is not something everyone's entitled to and if life goes bad the taxpayers can support you.

Can we please stop connecting entitlement with having children? Having children is a biological need which made sure we have survived as species. Children were born during wars, epidemics, evdn in concentration camps.
Once we start judging who should be entitled to have children or not, we are approaching a very dangerous zone of giving people right to reproduce based on their financial means. Lord knows, with Tories being in power and the Labour having become a non-entity, this could end up in some very interesting legislation in future.

Yes children are not a luxury and they generally pay taxes to support pensions of those older. In addition they often look after their elderly parents so the state doesn't have to.

Some people are poor through no fault of their own.

Some people are poor and it is their own fault

@araiwa - who do you know who is poor and it is their own fault?

Interesting how people make sweeping statements supported by nothing.

Can we just also point out that a lot of people who work very hard and are an essential work force,, eg carers might not be unemployed but still need benefits because their wages aren't enough to pay rent & bills.

My point was that adverse conditions are not the fault of the person they are affecting. And people should stop looking down their noses at others because you never know what's around the corner.

Surely you can see that the current situation is the epitome of exceptional. People are not allowed to leave their house to go to work. I'm surprised that this isn't more obvious?

One of my friends from school is poor because hes lazy. He cant be arsed working. At most i think he has lasted a few weeks at any job then just gives up. He drinks and smokes. He never has much money. Theres nothing in his past to blame

Id say thats his fault

Your statement is much more of a blanket statement than mine

m.youtube.com/watch?v=JqreWTZsF2M

Trying not to take sides, but this woman who has 12 children gets £40,000 annual benefits, buys herself designer luxuries and isn’t afraid to admit it and was trying for her 13th child.

That makes my shit itch. It’s not because she loves kids, does she crack one smile when talking about babies? No.

She’s gets £40k for overpopulating the earth. I have one newborn and a £18k career but I’m not entitled to anything other than the £80 a month child benefit. We’re comfortable, but I draw the line at our only child because we wouldn’t be able to afford another. I don’t want to struggle with a second child, regardless of whether somebody else will be paying for them.

But then equally I think as long as noone who is claiming benefits rubs in my face how much more than me they are getting and don’t brag about cheating the system to get more then it’s not my business and I understand people need help.

Yes it is obvious, clearly. How does that make my observations about people who think nobody should get support until they, themselves need it wrong?

One of my friends from school is poor because hes lazy. He cant be arsed working. At most i think he has lasted a few weeks at any job then just gives up. He drinks and smokes. He never has much money. Theres nothing in his past to blame

Is this a close friend or someone you see when scrolling down your Facebook home page?

It's almost like you're saying something like 'You think it's so easy to make money. Well, let's take away your right to leave your house, your right to employ people and sell things and services, and see how easy you find it.'

No @MarginalGain that is not what I'm saying at all

I get endlessly irritated by people who are happy to benefit from being part of a free market capitalist economy, that only functions through the widespread use of cheap, low-paid labour, and would cease to be functional with full employment, who then turn around and sneer at and decry those who fulfil the low-paid roles or can't find worthwhile work.

Couldn't agree more.

Every period of capitalist economic development happens on the back of someone else. Whether it was the Victorian's child labour, the Empire's use of African slaves or the modern day equivalent of exploitative wages of many jobs with the threat of taking the jobs abroad if people don't suck it up and work for very little.

I also think that if you took all the key worker jobs keeping the country going at the moment and calculated the average wage, it would be pretty low. The rest of us are just pushing money around the system and generating more wealth for those at the top.

Most of us who work in high paid jobs do very little to contribute to the function of society. (And I totally include myself in that)

Its someone ive known for many years

Im not sure what the point of your question is?

Are you saying it is never anyones fault they are poor?

@WhatDoIDooDIoDtahW

Of course there are people who do that, in the same way that there are people who exploit every system. But the fact that she is on TV shows that her case is newsworthy and therefore exceptional.

Plus, something people shpuld understand is that the money isn't for her.

It is for her children. They are the next generatoon of workers and we need them to earn money and pay taxes to cover our retirement. This is how it works. During our working years we pay put to support children and the elderly.

The state feeds and clothes her kids and forces her to send them to school to try and enable them to have more success than the previous generation.

The fact that we look down on these kids with distain is hardly motivation for them to try and achieve more.

I would also point out that 40k for 12 children is not a lot.

I am not in the UK at the moment and where I live, we earn a decent wage but still get 1k per month benefits and tax relief because we have kids and subsidised childcare which makes it viable for me to work.

However, we pay much higher taxes. Higher than those proposed by Corbyn who was viewed as a dangerous left wing extremist in the UK.

@cuparfull

They have been turning the screw on my husband for ten years. You could electrocute him all day and never roust him out of bed because he cannot move his arms and legs at all. You could set the bed on fire.

You are in public here. People can see you.

I work minimum wage because I couldn’t be arsed to go to college/uni. I also can’t be arsed to work my way up. Some people are like me.

Before I get slammed, the only benefits I get are child benefit and DLA.

Are you saying it is never anyones fault they are poor?

Firstly, what kind of friend are you really? Secondly, it's very easy to judge someone when you don't know all their circumstances. And no you don't know anyone's full circumstances.

It's highly unlikely that anyone's ambitions as a child are to drink, smoke and do little else. Don't you think?

Many people have MH issues that make it difficult to work. Or undiagnosed conditions that have dogged them their whole life and made them feel bad that they are 'unsuccessful'

But let's remember that some people work extremely hard and still require state support. And most of us would be screwed if they didn't do the jobs they do.

Poverty is structural as a PP said. It is built into every type of human society and economy (not just the capitalist ones, there is actually more income inequality in communist economies).

As to who gets to be rich and who poor, it is 99% luck. The whole work hard, get rich is a myth sold to keep the poor working despite the meagre return on their labour. It starts in the schools telling children, study hard, education is the way out of poverty. It can be just not at a state shit school that is really designed to carbon copy the next generation of working class poor who will start working at 16 and go until they drop dead or reach 70 whichever comes first.

Yes, we can all point to individuals and say it’s their fault they are poor but the reality is that these are poor people who have seen through the work will make you free myth and know their situation is hopeless so why bother breaking your back for someone else to profit off?