To hope that some people now understand that it's not somebody's fault they're poor?

[Moomin8]

All of a sudden loads of people have had to claim UC

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/24/britain-benefits-rishi-sunak-claimants-austerity?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Torsten Bell, head of the Resolution Foundation, says people on £50,000 salaries have been anxiously asking him about benefits rates. They’re in for a shock, he says.” Funny, that: before this crisis, those doing alright were adamant that benefit rates were too high. Now, they’re worried it’s the opposite.

@Babyroobs

Indeed, UBI would have been the sensible solution, but then you'd just have threads full of the same people happily picking up UBI, while gurning about the fact that 'Sharon' is also getting the same UBI despite working part-time, living in social housing, and having three kids by different fathers, despite that being of no consequence whatsoever to their own situation. Plain old inherent human greed, nastiness, and selfishness would see to that. Much the same reasons for panic buying etc.

If you want a right laugh, simply propose to pay self-employed people 80% of DECLARED earnings over the past twelve months, then sit back and watch the tantrums.

@XDownwiththissortofthiingX It drives me mad. We cannot all do high paid jobs. Not everyone can sit in their offices after uni fees paid and not everyone has the same self esteem to even try after how a lot of people go on.

We are ALL important. I don't like to wish ill on anyone but some posters I hope they find out what it's like to live on the breadline. It's actually not that bad but I'm sure the thought of it will leave some people in horror to even dream of tightening their belts.

Hope they all get divorced for being horrible and I reap the benefits and can help even more people I do now. (Don't really mean that lol...but would let me give more to people who need it)

My mind is absolutely blown by the ignorance,

@blackswan88

I've been working in third sector for about ten years now, directly with some of my city's most deprived and vulnerable people. Once you have that direct, continual contact with them, you realise just how wrong most of the perceptions about them are. I'm not surprised in the slightest that the same old misconceptions, stigmas, prejudices persist, but it doesn't make it any easier to ignore.

I'm all for engaging, and I've always said that there are two types of ignorance, and naive ignorance is not offensive, but it makes it difficult to keep your cool when the person you're trying to educate genuinely has no idea or experience of the reality of poverty, mental illness, institutional discrimination, societal prejudice etc etc

@XDownwiththissortofthingX I can tell you are good at your job. I have been the person in these circumstances and have regularly had rude comments just because I am where I am now.

And yes, it is very emotive for me. People are people and we haven't all had things handed on plate or able to fight through the self esteem issues imposed on us by either family or society.

Hearing people saying 'you chose to do this' makes me so upset for both myself and others in my situation. Yes I've managed to get through and am doing extremely well, but I am in the minority and its not so simple.

XDownwiththissortofthingX Fri 27-Mar-20 00:12:27.
Says."They've done nothing but turn the screw on Welfare for ten years. "

And damned right too! Get people off their arses and into work to earn their money not get a handout from the rest of us who get up at 5 am and do a full working day.
About time someone took the benefits system in hand. It takes a cattle prod to roust some out of bed.

@cuperfall very judgemental, yes there are people who abuse the system but don’t tar everyone with the same brush.

You want to play the blame game some of you? OK Lets play.

a. it wasnt poorer communities jetting off to ski in Northern Italy AFTER the fact.

b. its not poorer communities driving to their second homes either.

Your move!

And damned right too! Get people off their arses and into work to earn their money not get a handout from the rest of us who get up at 5 am and do a full working day. About time someone took the benefits system in hand. It takes a cattle prod to roust some out of bed.

And what about disabled people? Do you think they need to be made to "get off their arses?" Because most long term claimants are either sick or disabled, or caring for someone who is.
Oh and as I'm sure you're aware most benefits go to people in work. You know people who work just as hard as everyone else but do jobs that apparently aren't valued by society enough to be paid a living wage. Like the carers who take of the elderly and the most vulnerable in society.

It's really ironic that someone like you with that kind of post pops up on this thread. It's people like you with that attitude that are the reason the safety net has been so comprehensively shredded, as many people are now finding out. You cry for benefit cuts, you want the so called shirkers punished, you want the number of people claiming disability benefits slashed.
When it affects other people you're happy as larry. Until it comes to when you need to claim. Then you bleat about how little benefits are and how unfair and complicated the system is. Well guess what, you got what you asked for. This is what you voted for, remember? Can't have it both ways.

FFS, don't get me started.

I grew up in a single parent household. My mum would not sign on because at the time, there was a stigma about being on the dole. I went to nursery from 6 months old (albeit charges were different then to what they are now), we coped with what money there was, there was no self entitlement - we got on with it.

We all have a choice, some choose to make that choice one way or another....

Ah yes #allinthistogether #ThereWithYou

@cuparfull I would love to get off my arse but sadly, due to being disabled, I am currently bedridden and have had to leave my job. I wouldn't normally wish my condition on anyone, but I am prepared to make the occasional exception.

...quite simply, if someone chooses not to work, or chooses a lower paid job, then that is entirely their choice and therefore their lower income is a result of that choice they have made

Yes, let's all flip a coin to see if we'll be nursery workers or neurosurgeons. Heads is neurosurgeons of course.

The system is obviously broken if the government gives Sharon the council house so she can have 3 more kids and work part time, but won't help someone who paid taxes all their life
.
Miajk Working class snobs like you are the worst. & your sexism is so crass. You sound like the script of a badly written sitcom aiming to sound street ending up sounding like a bit of a twit.

Do you think if 'Sharon' got less, you would get more?

I find it laughable how some find every way to demonise single mums. Whilst also seemingly believing in immaculate conception..

A basic income (Uc) for people who have never contributed is right. But people who have paid tax and NI should receive extra when they need it.

The question in your thread title was answered 9 posts in. NINE FUCKING POSTS. That’s how long it took for someone to stick the boot in, so no, there isn’t a hope in hell that people will become more understanding and empathetic.

They are so fucking terrified that someone they consider to be below them might get slightly more than their share, or indeed anything at all. Even at times like this, on a thread like this, the “won’t work” section of society is instantly dragged up as a reason why no one should get anything. People like @Miajk and @MrsTumbletap bring out the same tired old tropes and wait to be applauded as fine upstanding citizens because they would never behave like that.

A basic income (Uc) for people who have never contributed is right. But people who have paid tax and NI should receive extra when they need it.

So by your logic disabled people who are never able to work (and thus never able to pay tax and NI) should never get anything more than a "basic income" then?

@gingersausage

Yes, I see that you are right. People still thinking that they are entitled to certain things and that they are above others.,

Some of these comments are so nasty. Why don’t we go the full hog and reopen work houses?

Due to having a high amount of savings coronavirus wont effect me too much but I have spent a large chunk of my life living in an area of poverty and I believe it is the background of a person which makes them "choose" a lesser paid job. In our area I would say most people have a low paid job and their parents most likely also did these jobs. A lot of parents don't have the skills to help with school work or the resources or simply don't see the need to encourage their child to do better and so what may be seen as laziness by others who are more privileged is a actual a child trying their best under their circumstances. This child then leaves school and takes a minimum wage job and the cycle starts again.

@Moomin8 it didn't come out of nowhere, exactly; scientists and doctors have been expecting another global pandemic since at least 1918 (so-called "Spanish" flu epidemic). That's without going back in time and looking at things like the Black Death. We've just been lucky before that SARS, and MERS, and Ebola, didn't reach the west, or at least, not in sufficient numbers to cause a pandemic.

I just hope when this is over that those who hold opinions like Katie Hopkins and the like will have a better understanding of what it's like to be a refugee, or poor, or not born with a silver stick up your posterior.

I'd also like people to see that being an "influencer" (just as an example) is nowhere near as truly beneficial to society as a nurse, or a doctor, or a delivery driver, or a cleaner, or an agricultural worker (again, just as examples). And I'd like those at the top to be much, much less complacent and to understand just how much of a part luck plays in where you end up in life, no matter how many talents you might be born with. I'm not holding my breath though.

I saw the contempt people at the top had for people working in what they regarded as "monkey" jobs when I was an undergrad; I worked part-time (and this was in the days when you did get a grant if your parents, like mine, were dirt poor), and I still remember the snotty supervisor in his sharp suit making the comment, within our hearing as we battled away with customer service on the phones that "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys". I was more qualified than he was, even at that point, but he looked down on me and my colleagues as he had no clue whatsoever of our background.

So for some people (not all, obviously, and there are many self-employed people who provide work for others, or who are the sole breadwinner) this might just be something of a Levelling. Not that they'll remember, when it's over.

I've just heard though that the £2500 is a loan which the banks are slapping a 12% interest rate on. It's not a free hand out.

I mean, the argument that someone chooses a low paid job so it's their fault is incredibly flawed, especially since we have a government who spouts crap like anyone can open their own business. Whilst simultaneously doing all they can to hinder social mobility. I am finding rather ironic that they are now employing socialist measures because they have no choice.

Meanwhile I see people who think that in this crisis they should be able to keep their savings and have the government pay them their lost income I mean I get that people are fed up but savings are for when everything goes tits up are they not?

What are people’s ‘choices’ based on? Yes, you may say they make an individual personal choice about what job to do. But this is influenced by the culture around them, and the society/ structures in turn. If mum of 3 has grown up in a deprived community where cultural norms are around not working, or ‘choosing’ low paid work, it makes it far harder to choose a different path. Or if she grows up in an unequal society where wealthy people have access to better opportunities, and her education for example isn’t great, her choice of job is more limited. And these are without personal factors like abuse, loss, childhood trauma affecting a person’s self image and mental health, thus impacting choices they make to ‘avoid hassle’ as pp said.

I can understand frustration on here, but don’t know if it helps to dehumanise people who don’t understand the impact of poverty - they need education and to consider how culture/social structures have shaped them as well as others.

@Savvyblonde

I've just heard though that the £2500 is a loan which the banks are slapping a 12% interest rate on. It's not a free hand out.

Are you talking about the Self-employed grant capped at £2,500? I got the impression it was to be classed as 'income' so would have to included in the self-employed person's annual tax return and have income tax/NI applied to it? But you're saying it will be a bank loan?