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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu tenants not paying rent

267 replies

FrenchFancie · 26/03/2020 08:35

AIBU?
We are ‘accidental’ landlords in that DH got posted abroad four years ago and we put tenants in our flat. It’s our only flat, we have a mortgage on it. Rent has always just about covered mortgage and costs, we don’t make any money on the flat.

Tenants have contacted us to say they can’t pay rent due to one of them loosing work due to Covid. Fine, ok, I know it can’t be helped.

I’ve asked them to apply for whatever help the government will offer, asked for clarification if it was a job loss through redundancy or just that she’s been given no hours (iirc she works for a retail chain). - as this will make a difference I think in the support that she will be offered?
I’m prepared to accept lower rent for a period but I want them to apply for whatever they are entitled to in order to minimise both their loss and ours! I’m not going to evict them due to this, and we probably won’t treat it as rent arrears but instead just write the missing rent off - I think I’m being pretty reasonable with this, but tenants say it’s none of my business what benefits they apply for and I just have to accept whatever rent they choose to pay as they can’t currently be evicted.

AIBU to think they are being CF? I mean I’m happy to work with them on this but feel we are being taken for mugs if they just refuse to pay rent.

OP posts:
Ethelfleda · 26/03/2020 17:17

Who’s offering 6 month mortgage holidays?
Should tenants cover the additional interest I’ll be liable for?
Are they prepared to accept the risk that, if I ask and get a mortgage holiday, I may not get the new fixed rate deal that I’m currently applying for, and if I don’t, I’ll have no choice but to sell the house?

It’s a 3 month break as far as I am aware.

But no - YOU should cover the extra interest and YOU should bare any risk.
It’s your responsibility as a landlord. It’s a risk to be a landlord - you should weigh those up before becoming one.
We have two rental properties. The risk of investing in property is entirely ours whether ‘accidental’ or not.

TurquoiseDress · 26/03/2020 17:34

YANBU it's a difficult time for everyone.

I think you're being reasonable in trying to assess what they might be able to claim, not in a nosey way, simply by helping make them aware of what is out there.

If they simply choose not to pay rent due current pandemic circumstances, then I think that is pretty bloody cheek- yes it makes them CFs

TurquoiseDress · 26/03/2020 18:19

We are in rented (SE London) and it looks like DH is going to be furloughed by work, luckily there is the 80% being offered by the government.

We've sat and looked at all our bills & expenses, not once has it occurred to us to just simply stop paying the rent.

LoveNursing · 26/03/2020 18:30

OP you're okay, they're going to get up to 80% of their pay up to 2.5k, which is plenty to pay their rent.

HugoSpritz · 26/03/2020 18:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JaneEyre7 · 26/03/2020 18:36

I love that they think it's not your business but they're happy to live in your flat rent free.

It won't be one month OP. It will be many.

As for those telling you that YABU, I'm speechless. Why should you be out of pocket?!

SirChable · 26/03/2020 18:39

But no - YOU should cover the extra interest and YOU should bare any risk

Yes it is a 3 month break. Hence my question to the PP who stated 6 months as though it were fact.

I can’t think of another example where someone paying anything late (not just a mortgage) would be able to offload any resultant penalty by default simply because the creditor ‘should be carrying the risk’.

All academic anyway... my bank currently doesn’t appear to be offering mortgage holidays on BTL mortgages.

I do bare the risk of not being able to get a new fixed deal.... and it would be mitigated by selling the house.

dontdisturbmenow · 26/03/2020 18:55

But no - YOU should cover the extra interest and YOU should bare any risk.
It’s your responsibility as a landlord. It’s a risk to be a landlord - you should weigh those up before becoming one
I totally agree. Similarly, tenants need to take responsibility that if they don't pay rent on time and tell their LL they are not willing to discuss the matter, they are likely to find themselves evicted when the time comes.

Problem is, when that happens, they'll probably come on here to post how their LL are ruthless, refused to help them and they were evicted through no fault of theirs and everyone will go 'oh poor you, shame on you all, what a total bastard, hate LLs'.

LumaLou · 26/03/2020 19:05

Well, technically they are right, you don’t actually have a right to enquire about their personal business. They are possibly quite stressed.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 26/03/2020 19:06

Personally when the time comes I'd ask them to leave.

SirChable · 26/03/2020 19:36

I can’t think of another example where someone paying anything late (not just a mortgage) would be able to offload any resultant penalty by default simply because the creditor ‘should be carrying the risk’.

...where someone paying anything late (not just rent) would be able to offload.. I mean.

TurquoiseDress · 26/03/2020 22:40

but tenants say it’s none of my business what benefits they apply for and I just have to accept whatever rent they choose to pay as they can’t currently be evicted

The first bit, yes I don't think you can argue with that...but the second bit just makes me think you should serve notice to them, 3 months or whatever it is now

EvilPea · 26/03/2020 22:47

and The queue of tenants waiting to rent your place at the moment is how long?

I have a friend whose an accidental landlord, first thing they did when this kicked off was emailed their tenants.
“Are you ok? Any problems, talk to me”
They are working from home so ok. But hats off to him, my landlord certainly hasn’t done that.

You catch more flies with honey.

Rosebel · 26/03/2020 23:16

If you decide to give them notice you still can't make them leave unless you get a court order and I don't think you'll be able to do that at the moment (although you might be able to in 3 months). Without one though you can't force them to leave.

Jonb6 · 27/03/2020 00:38

Yes I too telephoned all my tenants to check they were ok and see if they needed anything. It's good practice to keep tenants on side and another reason why I do 6 monthly property checks. One I think may have had a bad experience with a previous landlord but he's ok now, it just takes a while to build trust, and with the current issues means I already have a good relationship with them so if they do lose their job they hopefully can be upfront about it so I can help.

Jonb6 · 27/03/2020 00:40

@Rosebel only the s21 notice requirement has been increased from 2 months to 3. That is the only change to the law currently. So ground 8 possessions will still take place.

Jonb6 · 27/03/2020 00:46

Actually I correct myself, the judiciary has suspended all current possession proceedings for 90 days. We really need to know the detail of this – for example, are all current warrants and High Court writs of possession suspended? It goes well beyond the Govt’s limited extension of the required notice period for some types of tenancy announced the other day. This is an administrative decision by the judiciary and could be extended. So there you go.

HavenDilemma · 27/03/2020 00:51

@Drpeppered £57.90 a week?! Where on Earth have you got that from?!?!

ACertainSupermarket · 27/03/2020 00:58

I think you're entirely reasonable to ask them to show what benefits/furlough pay they are receiving - for example if they are receiving 80% of their normal pay you could quite reasonably ask for 80% of the rent. They seem to be CF though because they could well be exploitui=ing the no eviction situation. If they refuse to offer to pay anything at all, you could offer to delay their eviction until the end of the crisis.

ViserionTheDragon · 27/03/2020 01:06

OP, I'm a landlord too your tenants are being awful, while you have tried to be helpful. For all you know they could be taking advantage and and their attitude is counterproductive. Our tenants told us today that they have had to stop work by their company today and they are going to email us (willingly, I might add) evidence of their reduced pay so we can work out a way forward with them.

My advice is to keep correspondence via email if you can (rather than WhatsApp etc) and if they are still carrying on in this way, get a solicitor involved. Good luck.

Saracen · 27/03/2020 01:28

As annoying as you found their response to you, I think you need to pause for a bit and consider what is most pragmatic.

They've been good tenants who've paid their rent reliably for four years. That's a good sign. They're likely stressed and possibly confused and maybe sent a rash response to you. Once they have all the information about their legal rights and obligations they may realise it would be wise to cooperate with you.

You say you are coming back at the end of the year and you were hoping to keep these tenants until then. Evicting them would take time and cost money which you may or may not ever recover from them depending on their finances. And what then? You'd have the extra costs of getting the house sorted ready for new tenants, and the old tenants may not leave it in good condition since they'll be angry about being evicted. The coming months will be a very hard time to find new tenants, especially since you'd need short-term tenants if you plan to move back into the house yourself later this year.

But likewise it is probably in the tenants' interests to work with you. If they are as hard up as they say, it won't be easy for them to get a new tenancy. If they aren't, then they'll just end up having to repay you all the rent arrears plus eviction costs anyhow.

A nonconfrontational message to them laying out the situation would be best. Perhaps give them a couple of days to calm down first. This is business, and whether they have been rude to you is less important than whether you achieve a satisfactory outcome

badaboum · 27/03/2020 01:45

@FrenchFancy I apologise for being quite so forceful in expressing my opinion. I definitely struck the wrong tone. Good luck with everything.

Pixxie7 · 27/03/2020 02:13

There is definitely room for abuse, it’s not clear if the rent will need to be paid eventually. You say that one has been made unemployed so one is still earning, they will probably be entitled to some housing benefit, so they should be paying you something. Your only recourse would be to evict them once this is over.

Noconceptofnormal · 27/03/2020 04:13

My understanding is that the mortgage holidays are not applicable to buy to let mortgages, only personal mortgages.

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/03/2020 04:44

Noconcept
That wouldn’t surprise me at all... we won’t need to use this facility but it’s rubbish for those, who would if this is true.