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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu tenants not paying rent

267 replies

FrenchFancie · 26/03/2020 08:35

AIBU?
We are ‘accidental’ landlords in that DH got posted abroad four years ago and we put tenants in our flat. It’s our only flat, we have a mortgage on it. Rent has always just about covered mortgage and costs, we don’t make any money on the flat.

Tenants have contacted us to say they can’t pay rent due to one of them loosing work due to Covid. Fine, ok, I know it can’t be helped.

I’ve asked them to apply for whatever help the government will offer, asked for clarification if it was a job loss through redundancy or just that she’s been given no hours (iirc she works for a retail chain). - as this will make a difference I think in the support that she will be offered?
I’m prepared to accept lower rent for a period but I want them to apply for whatever they are entitled to in order to minimise both their loss and ours! I’m not going to evict them due to this, and we probably won’t treat it as rent arrears but instead just write the missing rent off - I think I’m being pretty reasonable with this, but tenants say it’s none of my business what benefits they apply for and I just have to accept whatever rent they choose to pay as they can’t currently be evicted.

AIBU to think they are being CF? I mean I’m happy to work with them on this but feel we are being taken for mugs if they just refuse to pay rent.

OP posts:
LoveNursing · 26/03/2020 11:38

As it’s only a holiday those 3 months get added on to the end of your mortgage term, I thought it was the same for renters? If they have a 3 month holiday then it still has to be paid, monthly rates would go up to cover it?

Yes this is true. They're given a grace space but expected to pay in the end .

LoveNursing · 26/03/2020 11:39

No benefits are instant.

Haven't the government made the exception that claimants only wait a week at the moment?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/03/2020 11:40

As long as they do apply and give you the money as soon as they can I don't see a problem

Neither do I, but it's the "tenants say ... I just have to accept whatever rent they choose to pay as they can’t currently be evicted" which would worry me most

Quite rightly nobody can be evicted just for a mulish attitude, but there are plenty of other grounds and from what OP's said I expect these particular tenants to create at least one of them

NoMorePoliticsPlease · 26/03/2020 11:41

The mortgage 3 months entails interest

NoMorePoliticsPlease · 26/03/2020 11:43

I think you are being reasonable and writing off the rent. The tenant is being rude, and no they cant just say we will pay what we ca and you can put up with this. Conversations need to be cordial, reasonable but not a complete free rein for any CF

CrazyToast · 26/03/2020 11:43

YANBU, obviously. It is not unreasonable to discuss the situation with them and come to an arrangement. They might just be super stressed and defensive, or they might be CF. I would try again in a nice soft way once they've had a bit of time to process.

Apirateslifeforme · 26/03/2020 11:47

For PP saying no benefits arent instant, they pretty much are.
Advanced payments are made very quickly and are upto a months money.
Then you get your payment a month later.

SarahInAccounts · 26/03/2020 11:49

Tell them they either discuss it or start looking for somewhere else to live as soon as the ban on evictions is lifted.

Our tenants are doing all they can and keeping us informed but we have told them to not leave themselves short.

Sceptre86 · 26/03/2020 11:52

If you use a service you have to pay for it, it really is that simple. No one owes you a roof over your head. The tenants should not expect to live there rent free regardless, they should be contributing something even if it is £10 a month. They are cf. They should be applying for housing benefit if they haven't already and should be giving that to you. Applying for a mortgage holiday isn't that much help to you as they will still charge you interest so when your repayments are calculated they could be higher than before. You are willing to be understanding and meet them half way but you are not a charity! Op you dont sound greedy in the slightest.

BalloonSlayer · 26/03/2020 11:55

I think I would point out that they can be evicted - and will be - if the flat is repossessed by the mortgage company because the mortgage isn't paid. And if they don't want this to happen they need to co-operate with your application to get a mortgage holiday by giving you the information you need for your application. This will be a win/win for both of you: you get to keep your flat and they get not to be turfed out by the mortgage company.

That ought to do it.

thereisfreedomwithin · 26/03/2020 11:58

did you change your mortgage to a buy to let mortgage OP? If not I think it might be a bit trickier for you to get the mortgage holiday but do join the landlord's association as set out above

GatoradeMeBitch · 26/03/2020 11:59

Haven't the government made the exception that claimants only wait a week at the moment?

Interesting how that is suddenly possible, and on a reduced DWP staff as well...

windmill26 · 26/03/2020 12:02

Some great advice from other MN members above.If I was in your position I would get as much advice as possible and then write back to them explaining your position and where you BOTH stand legally.I am already sick to death about this "we are all in it together" bollocks...the reality is we all have different issues and we have to do what is required to keep our head above water and our family safe.Yes,we should be helping one another and been mindful of others issues and problems if we can...clearly your tenants don't think along this line.The mortgage holiday is not a solution as in the long run you still have to pay this money to the bank...are your tenants going to help you in the long run if things get worst and you are risking to have your home repossessed?

GatoradeMeBitch · 26/03/2020 12:03

To tell you to mind your business and they'll pay whatever they feel like because they can't be evicted - those are not tenants I would want for any length of time. Actually given their way of communicating with you, I wonder if they're simply CF's who have seen a way to get out of paying rent for the time being...

LoveNursing · 26/03/2020 12:09

Will everyone just shut the fuck up about the term accidental landlord. It's a thing. Get over it.
Or maybe educate yourself? Here, this may help.

Google search: 'what is an accidental landlord'. Loads comes up and they're not blogs, they're actual official agencies, mortgage lenders, money advisors, letting agents, insurance brokers... etc.

Sorry op that people are being so ridiculous. I can only imagine they're not coping too well with the current corona situation! (Not that that's any excuse).

fivesecondrule · 26/03/2020 12:11

Thanks to everyone who clarified. My LL is brill so I didn't doubt him just haven't seen many people say the same as he has. Have you told them the same as my LL OP... that it's not a "holiday" and that they are going to have to repay this money back? Can you take it out of their deposit if they fail to do so?

agentnully · 26/03/2020 12:11

I rent but used to have a mortgage so see both sides of the coin. A mortgage holiday is that. It doesn't mean people don't have to pay back the money they didn't pay during the holiday.

I'll be paying my rent as I know that at the end of this I'd have to pay it back anyway or risk eviction.

I think there are CFs out there that think it's an excuse to not pay at all. I say this as three of my renting friends have decided to stop paying rent despite being able to get 80% of their wages. They believe that they won't be evicted but I think they're in for a rude awakening.

Don't people realise that landlords have to pay mortgages? If a landlord has the type of tenant that isn't even willing to discuss it or try to get help I'm pretty sure the landlord would be happy to evict as soon as possible and find a more reasonable tenant.

As for CF tenants, don't they realise that finding a new home is costly and stressful? Evictions are being delayed but not stopped. My friends can't see this.

I'm lucky as I have a great landlord. I'll be doing my best to stay where I am. It took me ages and a lot of money to find a nice place with a good landlord so I don't want to be evicted.

If you're being paid 80% of your wages surely you can manage. There are no travelling costs or daily expenses related to working at the moment. One of my CF friends buys several Costas a day plus breakfast and lunch and travels 100 miles a day for work. She's already said that by the time she buys something new in the shops when she walks around during lunch break she's saving money. Why is she failing to pay rent?

My other friend spent a lot of money on food and alcohol just before the weekend as she held BBQs on the Saturday and Sunday.

This crisis is bringing the CF/stupid out of the woodwork in a big way.

Andromeida59 · 26/03/2020 12:14

I'm a LL. We have a shop and flat (that was our home for ten years). in one unit. Before the issue took off, I contacted the tenant in the shop and lowered the rent until this is all over. I also contacted th residential tenants and asked them if they needed help not just financially but if they needed hand sanitizer etc.

In my opinion, the OP's tenants are C.F. I would think that they're lying about not being able to pay otherwise they'd be forthcoming. Unfortunately, there will be some that never find fault with tenants but always with the landlord. I am off work due to a disability and I'm also in a vulnerable category. If we don't get the rent, we could lose everything.

LaurieMarlow · 26/03/2020 12:14

Will everyone just shut the fuck up about the term accidental landlord. It's a thing. Get over it.
Or maybe educate yourself?

I think we all know what it means. Cheers though Hmm

It’s a disingenuous term. The rent does not ‘accidentally’ fall into your pocket. Regardless of whether this was someone’s life plan or not, their tenants are contributing to a substantial asset for them.

Which is fine. It’s the way the world works. But fucking own it.

Iwalkinmyclothing · 26/03/2020 12:14

Will everyone just shut the fuck up about the term accidental landlord. It's a thing. Get over it.

No, thanks, I don't fancy shutting up about it. If you don't like others thinking differently to you, maybe you could get over that.

Or maybe educate yourself?

Uh huh, because of course anyone who doesn't think the term is an accurate representation of the choice to become a landlord is uneducated.

jacks11 · 26/03/2020 12:17

YANBU

You are willing to be flexible, they are being unco-operative and their attitude of “we aren’t paying and there isn’t anything you can do
about it, so get lost” is hardly likely to endear them to anyone. OP is willing to work with the tenant, they are being unreasonable in not wanting to work with her. I don’t understand why other posters think this is an acceptable way to behave. If tenants want help and support them they must be prepared to work with their landlord. Of course, I am aware some landlords are terrible, but it doesn’t seem like OP is one of those.

OP is entitled to know what their position is, what their plan to pay the rent is in the longer term and ask for some proof. Many lenders, for instance, are asking for proof of loss of employment/being furloughed etc. So if they won’t even discuss that OP may not be able to request deferring her mortgage. Landlords aren’t always the bad guys and it does sound like OP is trying to be fair to her tenants.

In OP’s position, my initial intentions of working with the tenants to find a workable solution and even considering writing off arrears would be totally out of the window. I’d stick to the absolute letter of what I had to do, nothing more and nothing less, and certainly would not be intending to write off the arrears any more. I’d also be considering eviction after the moratorium period is over- if they can’t work with me/be reasonable during this type of crisis, I don’t think I’d trust them to deal fairly with me in other circumstances.

MrKlaw · 26/03/2020 12:18

If you can afford to pay the mortage without the rent, then continue to pay it - a mortage holiday is just deffering debt, not writing it off.

if you can't afford, then apply for a holiday now - regardless of what your renters are doing, it may take time for them to sort things out with DWP or their employer. Your priroity is to not risk your property

That buys you time. I'd contact the tenants and let them know you're willing to provide them either a reduced rent or some time to sort themselves out, but that you expect the rent to be covered in full. If they have any specific issues that would prevent that, they should come to you - just like they would if one of them lost their job in 'normal' circumstances.

GabsAlot · 26/03/2020 12:18

yes they do sound rude but uc applications will take longer than usual they wont have any proof of it yet-just try and say you'll accept a lower amount and see how you go

if youre moving back at the end of the year it wont be a great time to evict and will prob take at least 6 months anyway

JustInCaseCakeHappens · 26/03/2020 12:20

because of course anyone who doesn't think the term is an accurate representation of the choice to become a landlord is uneducated.

why do you keep insisting that there is a choice for everybody? You are missing half the info or something?

LaurieMarlow · 26/03/2020 12:23

why do you keep insisting that there is a choice for everybody?

There’s always a choice. You could sell or leave the property empty.

For most people I’m sure renting out there property makes the most financial and practical sense.

But that doesn’t mean it’s not a choice.