Aibu tenants not paying rent

[FrenchFancie]

AIBU?
We are ‘accidental’ landlords in that DH got posted abroad four years ago and we put tenants in our flat. It’s our only flat, we have a mortgage on it. Rent has always just about covered mortgage and costs, we don’t make any money on the flat.

Tenants have contacted us to say they can’t pay rent due to one of them loosing work due to Covid. Fine, ok, I know it can’t be helped.

I’ve asked them to apply for whatever help the government will offer, asked for clarification if it was a job loss through redundancy or just that she’s been given no hours (iirc she works for a retail chain). - as this will make a difference I think in the support that she will be offered?
I’m prepared to accept lower rent for a period but I want them to apply for whatever they are entitled to in order to minimise both their loss and ours! I’m not going to evict them due to this, and we probably won’t treat it as rent arrears but instead just write the missing rent off - I think I’m being pretty reasonable with this, but tenants say it’s none of my business what benefits they apply for and I just have to accept whatever rent they choose to pay as they can’t currently be evicted.

AIBU to think they are being CF? I mean I’m happy to work with them on this but feel we are being taken for mugs if they just refuse to pay rent.

They can be evicted, it’s no fault evictions that have been blocked. Cheeky fuckers. Not necessarily true, sone Courts have stopped all evictions until they receive clarification.

Fucking hell, the lack of empathy towards renters here is disgusting. Do you think banks should treat homeowners the same then and take the house as soon as they fall behind on the mortgage during these times? Or is that different because home owners are a better, more trustworthy class of people?

At this time, everyone needs to be willing to BEAR WITH each other and this involves communicating and being flexible and showing compassion.

It is right that LLs do this - by acknowledging the financial difficulty tenants find themselves in, being flexible about rental payments, seeking help that is available to those with mortgages, communicating clearly and being willing to look for solutions that work for both parties.

It is also right that tenants do this - by acknowledging the financial difficult LLs find themselves in, being flexible about rental payments, seeking help that is available to them. Communicating clearly and being willing to look for solutions which work for both parties.

Most landlords and tenants will want their property to still be available after this crisis and for the tenant-landlord relationship to exist.. They both need to recognise that handling this correctly and being willing to compromise and be flexible now will determine whether these relationships have a lomg term future.

As a LL I would be saying that I sympathise with their losing their job and difficulty in paying rent. I would be saying Inwould look into the mortgage holiday but pointing out that my mortgage payments will have to be paid with further interest - I will not be let off them. I would be asking to discuss what interim arrangements can be made - that will involve talking and discussing what might be paid now and what might be paid in future. They should be told they are secure.

As a tenant I would be saying I appreciate the LL has costs and a mortgage to pay and even with a holiday, those costs will have to be paid. I would be saying Inwould he accessing help available and working out what I can afford at the moment. I would be asking to discuss what can be paid now, if anything can be written off and if anything can be paid later when times are better.

It's all about good communication from both sides and being reasonable and trying to help each other. If a LL feels tenants want to avoid paying any rent, it causes difficulties. If a tenant feels a LL won't be flexible at all it causes difficulties.

as I have stated elsewhere: some people rent out parents property to pay for residential care
& Yep I can see that business allowing them to go into arrears

Ask for proof of loss of employment. P45 etc.

Apply for a mortgage break and see where that goes first.

The issue isn't that landlords are bastards and renters are poor little victims to a bag load of Shylock's, it's the 'fuck off' attitude that is the problem. If we are supposed to be practising forebearance then the least we can do is be polite and actually discuss shit without being snotty about it!

Tenants have contacted us to say they can’t pay rent due to one of them loosing work due to Covid. Write back, with a line saying you have emailed the same, then email a copy, acknowledging the snail mail's existence. Something like:

I was sorry to hear that your work situation has changed and I understand that it is very worrying, in these times. I can accept that you need to take a rent holiday over the next three months. I may be able to arrnage similar with my lender, I am currently looking into it. Whilst I am doing this we need to come to an agreement about the repayment of the missing rent payments.

I would be willing to arrange a something along the lines of a repayment plan over 6 months, from month 4 (add date) through to month 10 (add date). Obviously this might change, as and when the CORVID 19 guidance changes. We can deal with that as it happens.

What we need to do now is discuss how much of a rent reduction you are asking for and to work ot what works best for both us us from there.

Yours

The main thrust is that YOU are trying to be helpful and flexible and are NOT threatening them with eviction if they don't comply, compromise etc. Then, should they dig their heels in further, you can choose to issue a S21 etc with no feelings of guilt... or chance of beng blocked by the courts.

That you might take further action once that is possible is down to them... you don't have to feel guilty. They are adults, whatever their circumstances they have to act accordingly... just as we all do!

On that basis alone I would get them out asap and fuck up their credit rating as much as possible.

Ageing divorced man alert.

This is why we sold our rental. For some strange reason people think they should be able to live free in some one else’s property and if you disagree with it your called all sorts of shite.

Never again.

OP cover your back and apply for the Mortgage break now, I’d also issue them with the notice to leave the property. Obviously communication has broken down and from here on it will just get worse,

It's the attitude thats the problem.

The inability to pay could be negotiated between parties and a plan devised. Which is what decent people do.

This is why we sold our rental. For some strange reason people think they should be able to live free in some one else’s property and if you disagree with it your called all sorts of shite.

so true, but the jealousy and bitterness is strong. It's also easier to portray landlords as the bad guys.

Another solution is to AirBnB your property, you end up making more money even with the higher maintenance costs. Is that what people really want though?

Rather worryingly, a Facebook acquaintance has just posted a petition saying that while landlords are getting ‘free periods of mortgage’, renters should also be given this ‘free period’ and pay no rent. I’ve pointed out that a) it’s a deferment involving re-calculated and higher payments afterwards and that b) as a teacher who is being paid in full, she should not be concerned with paying rent (and maybe she should check the facts as opposed to mindlessly signing a petition with incorrect info on it)

Agree with Maleficent7
The level of nastiness is staggering.
Where are the caring left-wing liberal mumsnet poppets when you need them?

Pretentious little LL, accidental or not, are now reaching their own level of ineptitude and simply can't deal.

Wow, do you see the irony of what you’ve just posted?! Vicious!

I knew it would happen, there are always some that will take advantage. Unfortunately you can’t legislate for a lack of integrity.

Ouch @badaboum this is my family home we are talking about here, I’m not being inept, I’m trying to do the right thing. Maybe remember there’s a person at the end of your comments? I’m stuck in a foreign country with closed boarders and a looming financial crisis with tenants who won’t talk to me. There was no need to have such a go at me.

Oh ignore badaboum OP, the resentment was just oozing out their post and said far more about them than it does about you!

Before this has run its course we may well be at pitchforks time and BTL will be a target for many a tenants wrath
.

This is a simple one.

If they're willing to be open to you then you can come to some arrangement and write off some of their rent for this period as you suggested etc.

If they refuse to discuss then just say they'll have to pay the full amount in arrears.

Do you think banks should treat homeowners the same then and take the house as soon as they fall behind on the mortgage during these times?

With the caveat that, quite rightly, nobody can evict anyone as soon as debts arise, I'd say this is no different at all. Banks can and do seize homes all the time, and a key issue in this is whether the borrower has engaged in attempts to sort out the debt, just as it is with LLs and tenants

Predictably the tired old posts about them "paying for your mortgage" have started, but I've never quite seen how this matters. I don't think about helping to pay the mortgage of the local grocer, chemist or shoe shop owner when I shop there, and frankly don't consider it my business anyway ... but it would quickly become theirs if I helped myself without paying, and I'd expect them to do something about that

Let's at least be honest and accept that some of this comes down to plain, old fashioned envy as in "they own the house, I don't and it's not faaaiiirrr"

Haven't read the full thread but those saying they will only get £54 in benefits are incorrect. There is a housing element that is separate to the living expenses element.
Tenants should be able to claim the local housing allowance rate. It's likely to be less than the actual rent but substantial.

Do you really think that they and their children should go without food in order to pay your mortgage

No they need to claim benefits for their living costs. Housing benefit is for paying their rent, not anything else. Its not for buying food.

Being a landlord and collecting rent is no different to loaning someone money and expecting repayments. You have a capital item (house or money) and you are letting someone else use it in return for payments. If you hate landlords and renting then hate banks and mortgages as well.

They are being massively unreasonable and I’d encourage you to read the relevant legislation carefully and email them the parts that apply so they are aware that one way or another they will be liable for the rent at some point in time even if you can’t evict them as quickly as you usually could.
We both work in hospitality and our land lords have very generously (and unexpected) given us one month with no rent, and then a drop to 80% of the rent until the situation changes, as that is what we will be earning so there should be no reason we can’t afford it, especially with lower living costs as we can’t go anywhere to spend money!

It's the attitude thats the problem

IME it very often is - as with Cherrysoup's FB poster, who seems to believe LLs really will get 3 months mortgage "free", so rent should be free too

I fully expect to see similar posts on here, and when it's pointed out the "free" months will actually have to be repaid in future, we'll doubtless be told LLs can afford it so shouldn't expect to get it back

I'd expect any landlord to apply for a 6 month mortgage holiday on their rental property to give tenants breathing room

Who’s offering 6 month mortgage holidays?
Should tenants cover the additional interest I’ll be liable for?
Are they prepared to accept the risk that, if I ask and get a mortgage holiday, I may not get the new fixed rate deal that I’m currently applying for, and if I don’t, I’ll have no choice but to sell the house?