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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu tenants not paying rent

267 replies

FrenchFancie · 26/03/2020 08:35

AIBU?
We are ‘accidental’ landlords in that DH got posted abroad four years ago and we put tenants in our flat. It’s our only flat, we have a mortgage on it. Rent has always just about covered mortgage and costs, we don’t make any money on the flat.

Tenants have contacted us to say they can’t pay rent due to one of them loosing work due to Covid. Fine, ok, I know it can’t be helped.

I’ve asked them to apply for whatever help the government will offer, asked for clarification if it was a job loss through redundancy or just that she’s been given no hours (iirc she works for a retail chain). - as this will make a difference I think in the support that she will be offered?
I’m prepared to accept lower rent for a period but I want them to apply for whatever they are entitled to in order to minimise both their loss and ours! I’m not going to evict them due to this, and we probably won’t treat it as rent arrears but instead just write the missing rent off - I think I’m being pretty reasonable with this, but tenants say it’s none of my business what benefits they apply for and I just have to accept whatever rent they choose to pay as they can’t currently be evicted.

AIBU to think they are being CF? I mean I’m happy to work with them on this but feel we are being taken for mugs if they just refuse to pay rent.

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 27/03/2020 05:46

they will probably be entitled to some housing benefit

Not if they are working age

It’s most likely they would be able to claim UC

So check with the area and find out www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-housing-costs/How-much-Universal-Credit-housing-costs-element-wi

Also strongly advise your tenants to immediately put in an online claim for council tax relief, they will be liable for council tax so any reduction they can get will help them financially

gingerbeerandlemonade · 27/03/2020 05:55

What a stupid label... 'accidental landlord' you're either a landlord or you aren't. No accident about it. You chose to put tenants in. You deal with the consequences. Should we feel sorry for you because you own a property but 'accidentally' rent it out. What difference does that make? The outcome is the same. You are a landlord and have a responsibility for your tenants. Apply for the three month break. Renters have no such luxury at the moment.

SarahInAccounts · 27/03/2020 06:26

You are a landlord and have a responsibility for your tenants.

Not when they aren't paying rent or even trying to. Tell them they will be out on their ears as soon as you can get them out.

ChrissieKeller61 · 27/03/2020 06:26

@gingerbeerandlemonade there is no three month break for landlords... hope that sinks in eventually

Pixxie7 · 27/03/2020 06:47

Housing benefit is part of UC, so they should be entitled to some.

rwalker · 27/03/2020 06:56

EVICT them what you are asking is totally reasonable . You would still have to make up mortgage payments later .

Absolutely vile people are dying and they are using the situation for there advantage.

Livelovebehappy · 27/03/2020 06:57

It’s in their best interests to maintain a civil relationship between you because when this is over, and normal service resumes, the relationship may be so broken that it would be untenable for them to remain your tenants. I don’t think it’s what is being said in these circumstances, but how it’s being said. As you’ve said, you’re renting out due to job reallocation situation with your DH, so being a landlord isn’t generating an income for you, but just maintaining the mortgage and bills on the property. Of course you would want to know that they are getting any financial help available and not just sitting on their arses taking advantage of the situation.

rwalker · 27/03/2020 07:46

GINGERBREADANDLEMONADE
I can't believe anyone who has lost there job would not apply for benefits and an element of that would include rent. So if the can claim for rent shouldn't they give it to the landlord or do you agree with benefit fraud.
Most of business giving staff 80% of wage as will want to reopen.

I'm a homeowner and will not apologise for that ( motorcycle accident compensation paid deposits and had 3 jobs to pay mortgage ). you just sound bitter .

zsazsajuju · 27/03/2020 08:45

The tenants are refusing to discuss the matter at all and are simply refusing to pay the rent. I think it’s fair enough in that circumstance to serve notice. They are trying to take advantage of the situation- we don’t know they in fact have lost their jobs. If they have they will be entitled to government help. They need to engage with op if what they are saying is true.

Some people unfortunately are using this awful situation to avoid their obligations.

zsazsajuju · 27/03/2020 08:54

Also the three “month Mortgage holiday” is a deferment of payments. It’s not an answer to ops tenants refusing to pay rent. It might be an answer if ops tenants were engaging and saying they could pay their rent once universal credit payments come through. But they’re not, they’re just trying to take advantage.

Rosebel · 27/03/2020 08:54

Our council informed us the only way they'll accept anyone being homeless is if you get a court order to remove the tenants. They also said this is the only way y you can make them leave. Not a new thing. This was last November, unless it's changed since then.

AliceInADifferentWorld · 27/03/2020 08:54

You are a landlord and have a responsibility for your tenants

Op is not a charity, your so called 3 month break is not free, op will have to pay it back. The tenants are adults, responsible for making sure they apply for housing benefit and paying their houses costs with it. If they can't do that then they get evicted.

dontdisturbmenow · 27/03/2020 09:01

As a LL, you have a number of responsibilities towards your tenants. Closing your eyes to them not paying rent even though they are likely to be able to get financial support to do so is not one of them.

Being a tenant doesn't absolve you of any responsibilities just because you chose to believe you are inevitably in a worse position than your LL.

MummytoCSJH · 27/03/2020 09:45

YANBU! I'm a low income tenant for clarity.

To echo other posters, the fact they can't pay isn't why they're CFs here. It's the fact they're flat out refusing to pay anything, tell you anything, on the misguided notion you can't evict them. You certainly can when all of this is over! Do they realise that if the mortgage doesn't get paid and the bank forecloses they won't be able to live there?

I can't believe the posters who are saying that at the moment rent is not their priority. Well it bloody should be if they want a roof over their head Hmm if they really had no way to pay and could show that, OP has said she wouldn't even charge for the arrears. I can understand why OP is gutted. I get they're probably panicking, everyone is, but why be a dick to someone who has provided your home for the last 4 years?

To be honest I'd be looking at still charging them for the 3 months arrears after that attitude, taking it out of deposit when they leave if necessary (and allowed?). If you are interested in keeping them and are still happy to write off the arrears, I'd write an email explaining everything you've written here, the plan going forward and that you need proof from employer and of current income to allow them a 3 month holiday (as you have to give that to your mortgage broker for them to allow you a break and not foreclose on the house). Perhaps they didn't understand your be happy to take a lower amount and write off the rest. Perhaps they did and are using the whole situation as an excuse.

Do they know you're coming back after this year? Just a thought, if they're not wanting to leave and are getting difficult...

FlockofGulls · 27/03/2020 10:08

As a LL, you have a number of responsibilities towards your tenants.

Indeed. But those are about maintaining a safe, dry, functional property, and allowing tenants to have "quiet enjoyment" of the property.

In exchange for a reasonable rent, paid on time. That is the tenant's responsibility.

BiBiBirdie · 27/03/2020 10:13

And people wonder why Shelter and the likes of appealed for legislation on evictions
YOU are being completely unreasonable, you can apply for a mortgage holiday, even if they do apply for UC it will take weeks, if not months, to come through. If they are in low paid employment do you not think they will be shitting themselves how will they heat the place or eat at the moment?
If you're not currently in the UK you have no clue how hard it's been made for people through no fault of their own. They've not bunked off work and got sacked. Have a bloody heart. Over 130,000 people were trying to apply for UC online two days ago and the numbers are rising

MummytoCSJH · 27/03/2020 11:30

@BiBiBirdie did you even read the OP or just the headline and get up on your high horse? She's quite happy to allow them to pay a minimal amount and not require them to pay any arrears, given they can prove they need it. Sadly there are people who would lie and use a situation like this to their advantage. All the tenants need is something from either employer explaining loss of job/hours, bank showing reduced income or universal credit showing they've applied. Also, you can get an advance on UC, so it's almost instant. It's done through an online system with no human intervention needed for the advance so it doesn't matter how many people are using it.

AliceInADifferentWorld · 27/03/2020 12:02

Have a bloody heart. Over 130,000 people were trying to apply for UC online two days ago and the numbers are rising

So what? The op is already being reasonable. No doubt she will wait for the money. She needs to know the tenant has applied for housing benefit. The tenant needs to start that process, not give up because loads of people are applying (although no doubt the tenant will be applying anyway, it's what they do with it afterwards.) Op has already agreed to take less. The tenant doesn't get to set that amount.

mogloveseggs · 27/03/2020 12:12

They are massive cheeky fuckers
We're still working for now and saving every penny we can so that we can continue to pay the rent hopefully. We've spoke to our letting agents already to let them know our situation.
We got no help when DH has an accident 2 years ago which makes us think we wouldn't be entitled to anything now hence trying to save.
I do wish they'd move the council tax break to the beginning of this year rather than the end though!

Pipandmum · 27/03/2020 12:28

I live off my rents. I'm not greedy, it is a business. I provide something ssential and I need to get paid for it. One tenant has not renewed as he is a student and his university has closed, but I am unlikely to get a new one any time soon for that so I'm already out of pocket.
I would expect that my other tenants do anything they can to pay their rent. You don't expect supermarkets to give you free food. I can be a little bit flexible but not provide it for free. I certainly would not evict anyone over this but many people (including the majority of my tenants) are entitled to the 80%, which is enough to cover the rent for any of them.
And people you do understand how a mortgage holiday works? You still pay, just in higher amounts after the three months.

PUER125 · 27/03/2020 12:52

One of our tenants rang to explain they might not be able to pay all their rent, but would do their best.
We told him not to worry but to keep us informed and we can discuss a repayment plan for any arrears, once this is all over.
The difference between us and other landlords, is that we have no mortgage on our rental properties, and can afford to be perhaps more lenient.
If there was a mortgage that needed to be paid, I would be concerned.
Our other tenants have not contacted us; I don't know whether they are scared to tell us they can't pay rent at the moment.

I think We shall have to ring them to let them know the situation.
Our tenants are lucky in having us as landlords, as I know there are some terrible landlords out there, and we too are lucky that we can manage in this crisis. Not everyone can

ivykaty44 · 27/03/2020 13:18

Housing benefit is part of UC, so they should be entitled to some.

HB is separate benefit claimed by OAP, those on higher rates of some other benefits and those in supported living. HB is issued by council

UC is a different benefit for working age people and has a housing element. UC is dealt with by DWP

motherheroic · 27/03/2020 13:29

Aren't landlords supposed to save up a 3-6 month cushion incase of things like this. If landlords don't have it, I don't know how people expect the average renter to have it.

madcatladyforever · 27/03/2020 13:32

I think they need to amend their attitudes quite honestly, you could turn round and give them notice.
If I was them I'd be working hard to come to a solution with my landlords no matter what to make sure I had a roof over my head. People really are CF's.

shanchanx · 27/03/2020 13:34

Totally depends if you are eligible for the mortgage holiday and how all that entails. You should get refunded any money you pay and then you infact wont be paying it either?

As a whole, no you aren't being unreasonable, thats a very kind offer given the circumstances in a general situation. But this is a slightly different scenario given the mortgage holiday.

They should be going and claiming anything they can towards the costs and paying you if possible as again, unsure to how the mortgage holiday goes and when/how/if you pay it back.

Otherwise anything the do pay is in your pocket?

Also would your insurance cover and loss of rent payment?

We have offered to pay half of ours via an estate agent who have been brilliant if we can pay more we will due to needing to pay it back in the long run