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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu tenants not paying rent

267 replies

FrenchFancie · 26/03/2020 08:35

AIBU?
We are ‘accidental’ landlords in that DH got posted abroad four years ago and we put tenants in our flat. It’s our only flat, we have a mortgage on it. Rent has always just about covered mortgage and costs, we don’t make any money on the flat.

Tenants have contacted us to say they can’t pay rent due to one of them loosing work due to Covid. Fine, ok, I know it can’t be helped.

I’ve asked them to apply for whatever help the government will offer, asked for clarification if it was a job loss through redundancy or just that she’s been given no hours (iirc she works for a retail chain). - as this will make a difference I think in the support that she will be offered?
I’m prepared to accept lower rent for a period but I want them to apply for whatever they are entitled to in order to minimise both their loss and ours! I’m not going to evict them due to this, and we probably won’t treat it as rent arrears but instead just write the missing rent off - I think I’m being pretty reasonable with this, but tenants say it’s none of my business what benefits they apply for and I just have to accept whatever rent they choose to pay as they can’t currently be evicted.

AIBU to think they are being CF? I mean I’m happy to work with them on this but feel we are being taken for mugs if they just refuse to pay rent.

OP posts:
Innitogether · 26/03/2020 10:06

YANBU. It is your business to know what benefits they are claiming. They may claim housing benefit and not pass it on to you.

I get that they may be in a shit situation financially, but they need to discuss things honestly with you.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 26/03/2020 10:07

It's good that you're willing to be understanding with your tenants and I hope that once they get over the shock at the situation everyone has been thrown into they will work with you to find a solution.
My daughter and son in law became self employed this time last year. They've done pretty well for the first year but all of a sudden their income has stopped. They've tried contacting UC to find out if they can get any help but yesterday there were over 100,000 in the phone queue all trying to do the same. They probably will get some help, but not yet. Their landlord has been in touch to say don't worry about the rent next month, it can be sorted out once this is over. He's self empolyed too but realises that feeding their family comes first
People are panicked, stressed and worried about their loved ones.

I cannot believe the posters on here telling the op to evict them. Have some fucking compassion

LaurieMarlow · 26/03/2020 10:10

I cannot believe the posters on here telling the op to evict them. Have some fucking compassion

People are animals. You see their true colours at times like this.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 26/03/2020 10:13

Just seen your update.
Your tenants have to be cooperative with you if they want you to help

dontdisturbmenow · 26/03/2020 10:13

@Bitofeverything, did you read the OP? They don't want to give facts, they told OP to get lost.

I can't help but wonder how many of those who will tell their landlord that they can't pay will not be able to because of the panic buying and full cupboards.

I personally can't understand why anyone, who owe to pay for something but find themselves unable to because they are genuinely not being paid, would not want to discuss their situation and yes, the fact they would be so defensive about it would raise suspicions.

In the end, how is this going it benefit them. If they wind up OP, make up doubt their claim, refuse to communicate, all that will end up is that they will be given an S8, and will be seen out of the flat at some point anyway. It's not productive for anyone and benefits noone.

RB68 · 26/03/2020 10:14

With that attitude to you I would start proceedings - let them try and move and find a new property in this environment and time. If they approach it with a we are in this together lets go for best outcome all round would be different

HoneyBee03 · 26/03/2020 10:14

I must admit, I am a renter but I do sympathise OP. I know a couple who are utterly thrilled that they could both stop working (zero hours/self employed) for a few months while they live rent free. They've been telling everyone to just go on benefits and stop paying rent. I don't think they realise that it's actually just the eviction notice period that's been extended. However there are also people who are really desperate for help right now, it's a tough one.

changedtempforprivacy · 26/03/2020 10:17

It sounds to me like they are trying to take advantage of the situation, that they are not willing to discuss the situation with you is very suspicious.

dontdisturbmenow · 26/03/2020 10:17

I cannot believe the posters on here telling the op to evict them. Have some fucking compassion
They can't be evicted now. The issue is not about them not paying but their attitude that's ok to not pay and unwillingness to come up with a plan. That's what is worth possibly future eviction because their attitude makes them untrustworthy.

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/03/2020 10:17

I’m a ll. That attitude would really really piss me off. And bring out my desire to fight. But they’re scared. Perhaps compassion would be better.

Could you find out what they are entitled to and email to them x, y and z to be helpful? Explain you are concerned about keeping a roof over their heads and stress that if they do not pay at all, you will struggle to pay the mortgage and may be forced to sell. So this is information to help you both.

She doesn’t want you to know what she gets. My response to this is that it also isn’t any of her business whether or not you are able to get a mortgage holiday. It will be your choice whether or not to apply. However, as you’re living abroad, you don’t even know if you are able to qualify.

RhubarbTea · 26/03/2020 10:18

Get A mortgage break.
They are fucked and will be getting hardly anything.
help them for God's sake.

This.

Murinae · 26/03/2020 10:20

If you want to move back in by the end of this year then I would start the process of giving them notice now. It could be a while before you get the flat back.

mumwon · 26/03/2020 10:22

I think there is a danger that a few tenants who might take advantage (& as stated elsewhere on another thread a few dodgy landlords) by not paying their rent because of coronavirus - BUT - they are still in arrears & after this unless tenants make payback arrangements (& if their contract specifically states they can be charged allowable interest on this) they can find themselves evicted. Both sides have to rethink both sides have to work together, both sides need to talk to each other, Apparently these mortgage holiday are charged interest each day - the only people who are winning are the banks - great to know that one part of British industry is doing well (irony alert!!!!)

roses2 · 26/03/2020 10:24

[b]help them for God's sake.[/b]

She is trying to help them - she needs them to also help so she can help. The tenants are being CF refusing to communicate so the OP knows where she stands and that they are also trying to help the situation.

fivesecondrule · 26/03/2020 10:24

I was under the impression from my landlord that we still had to pay our rent arrears. So if their rent is say £500 ppm they will still owe you £1500. We can still pay our rent so will be but he emailed us to say if owe needed some space financially he would cover the rent and a payment plan could be agreed over the following 6 months. Is this right?

2014meh · 26/03/2020 10:25

Sadly, there will be opportunists who will try to take advantage of whatever free money/concessions are available.

We only have to look at the example of fraudulent Grenfell claims to see that however tragic circumstances are someone somewhere will see the chance to try and take advantage financially.

The government aid will be subject to checks and so should informal private aid in the form of rent reductions/waivers.

You could start by telling the tenants that of course you'll work with them on this but the first port of call is your mortgage lender who are aware the property is let and require proof of tenant's redundancy before they allow you a mortgage holiday.

If they say they are not being made redundant , just not being paid, you will need proof of this from their employer (why are they not being furloughed in the first instance) and then as with some credit checks for incoming tenants you could ask for bank statements to show that monthly/weekly salary was not being credited beyond a certain date (although don't give them a heads up on this because, if they aren't being totally honest with you, there's the possibility that they switch to having any salary paid into a different account).

Initially I'd suggest conceding time to pay (as government are supposedly going to prevent evictions arising from loss of income as a result of corona virus) and then sort out the proof of loss of income later if you can take some of the hit of lost rent yourselves without it putting you in financial difficulty.

mumwon · 26/03/2020 10:26

Make enquiries about extending mortgage term - do you have insurance - &do you have permission from your mortgage (do you have a proper landlord mortgage or just residential -if its just residential 7 you have told your mortgage provider you have been unwise)

BennyVegas · 26/03/2020 10:28

If they are given help, they need to pay rent, you are not being unreasonable. 80% of two wages should easily cover rent plus living costs, particularly when we are on lockdown in a lot of places - maybe not if it is London?

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about the 80% thing, it's not as simple as out of work = automatic entitlement to 80% of previous salary.

Yogawoogie · 26/03/2020 10:28

They sound like arses. If it was can’t pay but trying to find a solution it would be very different!

TheTeenageYears · 26/03/2020 10:32

@fivesecondrule that was my understanding.

bigdecisionstomake · 26/03/2020 10:33

As far as I understand it rent remains contractually due but landlords are asked to be flexible about repayments. I would therefore tell them that you are prepared to be flexible and ask them to come back to you with a proposal of how they are going to pay the arrears once things get back to normal. If they aren't prepared to give you any information about whether they have actually lost their jobs entirely or are just furloughed for the moment and will be getting 80% at some point then I don't think you have any other choice. I think you've been eminently reasonable so far but there is only so much you can do if they won't work with you.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 26/03/2020 10:34

do you have insurance

Our agent offered us the insurance a couple of weeks ago - if you take it, then after 30 days of arrears the insurance company's lawyers step in and take it out of your hands.

I very much doubt the insurance companies are going to be as willing to work with a tenant as OP is.

bigdecisionstomake · 26/03/2020 10:36

@fivesecondrule Yes, you are correct.

TwoBlueFish · 26/03/2020 10:38

Can you have a look on your local council and see what the LHA (local housing allowance) would be for your tenants. That would be the amount they would get from universal credit (assuming they don’t have savings over £16k). They should at least be able to pay that much.

AliceInADifferentWorld · 26/03/2020 10:40

You'll always get people that take advantage op. Sounds like they are doing just that. And no you're not being unreasonable. They need to apply for benefit to pay as much of the rent as they can. They don't get to set the level and keep the rest.