Aibu tenants not paying rent

[FrenchFancie]

AIBU?
We are ‘accidental’ landlords in that DH got posted abroad four years ago and we put tenants in our flat. It’s our only flat, we have a mortgage on it. Rent has always just about covered mortgage and costs, we don’t make any money on the flat.

Tenants have contacted us to say they can’t pay rent due to one of them loosing work due to Covid. Fine, ok, I know it can’t be helped.

I’ve asked them to apply for whatever help the government will offer, asked for clarification if it was a job loss through redundancy or just that she’s been given no hours (iirc she works for a retail chain). - as this will make a difference I think in the support that she will be offered?
I’m prepared to accept lower rent for a period but I want them to apply for whatever they are entitled to in order to minimise both their loss and ours! I’m not going to evict them due to this, and we probably won’t treat it as rent arrears but instead just write the missing rent off - I think I’m being pretty reasonable with this, but tenants say it’s none of my business what benefits they apply for and I just have to accept whatever rent they choose to pay as they can’t currently be evicted.

AIBU to think they are being CF? I mean I’m happy to work with them on this but feel we are being taken for mugs if they just refuse to pay rent.

YANBU. Make sure they know the money is still owed and they are now in arrears. Don't get into tit for tat. Keep it professional. Read up on the guidelines.

Applying for a mortgage holiday makes sense although like most things there always seem to be exceptions so check it applies to your mortgage.

Contact the tenants and tell them you appreciate and understand their situation and will do everything possible to assist However that requires a certain amount of transparency. If you explain your situation (mortgage only just covered by rent, applied for mortgage holiday etc) but in turn you also need to get some clarity on their circumstances. In applying for benefits you have to disclose financial information, if you apply for a bank loan or credit card you have to disclose financial information. They need something from you which means they need to be upfront and honest so you can work this out together.

Everything I have read on the subject has said any delay in payment by tenants is a delay not a write off so they will still owe the money in the same way you will still owe the bank 3 mortgage payments. You might want to remind them of this if they want to be shitty about things.

Thanks @thecatneuterer - the problem he has is that if he refuses to pay it, he’s worried that he then won’t have a room to go to once things calm down, and the location of this one is perfect. He’s starting a new job in London but it’s now initially wfh.

Do the 101 posters telling OP to get a mortgage holiday not understand that a mortgage holiday doesn't reduce what you owe the lender?

They're effectively telling to the OP to go (further) into debt, as if that's a solution to the rent not being paid.

@DamnYouAutoCarrot landlords can still request that rent be paid directly to them through UC. It's a pain in the arse because they pay it in batches so it's not paid monthly like the UC payment is.

Do the 101 posters telling OP to get a mortgage holiday not understand that a mortgage holiday doesn't reduce what you owe the lender?

Of course, because I’m not a fucking idiot.

The point of a mortgage holiday has always been to cope with cash flow issues, not to hand out free money to home owners.

I’m staggered that this is news to people.

I think I'd just lay it out gently...but firmly... In writing...

You need their rent to maintain the mortgage... You're not being diffocult... Youre trying to preserve their tenancy

Do the 101 posters telling OP to get a mortgage holiday not understand that a mortgage holiday doesn't reduce what you owe the lender?

This. A mortgage holiday just means you pay later. Not that you don't have to pay at all.

And YANBU - you are very reasonable.

Do the 101 posters telling OP to get a mortgage holiday not understand that a mortgage holiday doesn't reduce what you owe the lender/

No, all of us are utterly stupid .

But as the OP has an immediate worry, we are suggesting ways of looking at alleviating it for now, and one option for the OP to explore now is a mortgage holiday.

I think this crisis is going to make an awful lot of 'accidental' landlords rethink whether they should actually be landlords. It all seems fine when things are going well and tenants are in situ and paying; but unlike professional landlords and HAs, they cannot cope with even minor hiccups in the cashflow.

FFS interest still has to be paid on a mortgage holiday.
They should pay their rent, either now or in arrears. It's a tough time for everyone.

Their attitude doesn't lend itself towards you wanting to help.

I've already said to dh that we will help our tenant if needs be but if they said it was none of our business and they'll pay what they want as they can't be evicted, then I wouldn't be thinking as kindly towards them.

They aren't being CF because of the situation but they are, because of their attitude.

They sound avoidant, arrogant and rather CF to me. What have your dealings with them been like before this? Their employee most likely owes them money e.g. if l was let go today l would get paid next Tuesday for the majority of this month. Can’t they get other jobs?! That’s what l would do in their shoes, we all know food retailers are recruiting

As others have said lm rather aggravated by the individuals trying to exploit this situation to avoid going to work, paying their rent etc etc. It’s business as usual as much as possible surely? Obviously apart from social isolation, being ill etc

On the average mortgage that 3 month mortgage holiday will cost approximately £2000 more than not taking it. It's a last resort not first option, people don't seem to understand that. You still owe the money then add on any interest on that money and if interest rates rise then it's going to cost even more

I said accidental landlord because my husbands civil service job posted him out of the country for five years. We had to choose between selling up and coming out of the housing market for that time, or putting tenants in. We chose to have tenants. I didn’t want to be a landlord particularly but it was the lesser of two evils and I think Most people would do what we did. It’s not like it’s a ‘spare house’, it’s my home. So please stop attacking me for being in this position.
I will speak to the bank about a mortgage holiday, of course, and if that works it’s what we will do. We have our own rent and costs in our host country, and due to visa issues I can’t work to bring in extra income. If they don’t pay we won’t default on the mortgage, this is our home and we want to keep it! But it will push us very very close to the wire.
At this point the tenant hasn’t produced any proof of their status, just an email saying, essentially ‘can’t pay won’t pay’ and when I asked for proof / what they intended to do, I was told it was not of my business and I can’t evict them. They have never acted badly in relation to rent before, and we have had these tenants four years now, I had wanted to keep them in until we come home at the end of this year.
Even if they can only pay a portion of the rent, or need a break for a month while their claim for benefits goes through, that’s fine. I just think the attitude of ‘cant pay, won’t pay’ was rude - after all, I still have to pay my rent here!

I'm also a landlord and have applied for a mortgage holiday but IF I get granted the 3 months break in the mortgage I will still have to pay that money back. It will get added onto the mortgage with extra interest accrued.
So I dont understand why people think it's ok for someone to not pay rent for 3 months, not explain the situation and not at any point pay that money back.
So landlords are made to give free rent and, whilst they get a break from the mortgage for a few months then they have to pay this back with extra interest.
Renting a house out (in my experience) is not profitable. I've just brought a new boiler for it so I'm paying for that monthly. Rightly so that I should do all repairs but overall the house costs me and I dont make a profit.
So over the Coronavirus I will be working 70 hrs a week to cover the extra costs of my tenants not paying rent. How is that right. Morally they should be contributing what they can. I'm an emergency services worker so by the time ive worked all those hrs I'm making myself ill. I need to pay that money to the mortgage company at some point so it needs to come from somewhere.
There are jobs available in Aldi etc so everyone should be doing their bit not just expecting a free ride for 3 months.
She has said she doesnt expect full rent but she is entitled to know what the situation is so she can make adjustments herself.
To the person that said she should be able to absorb the costs how on earth would that be possible to have that huge amount of money saved up? In an ideal world yes but real life rarely allows people to have that much spare money.

I rent out through Winkworth and they have sent a round robin telling everyone to ask lots of questions of tenants if this happens. They say reasonable to ask for bank statements etc. They’re essentially asking you for money, and it’s reasonable for you to ascertain precise situation (while also being sympathetic as shit stressful time for everyone)

A mortgage holiday is not "help" for the landlord, it's just a temporary pause in payments but you'll end up owing more afterwards!

Your tenants need to apply for all benefits they can get - that's why they are there. It does feel like many tenants are using the situation as some kind of a protest against landlords in general.

No 3 month mortgage holidays on buy to let’s

In light of the amount of emails we have received from our tenants of fully managed properties regarding potential issues with their rent payments, we thought it would be helpful to send advice to landlords on our let only and rent collection services to help them should they encounter similar issues.
Inevitably jobs will be lost through business closure. Reduction in working hours and temporary ‘lay offs’ will result in a cut or even a total loss of wages.
With or without Covid-19 we know that there are people who will take this opportunity not to pay their rent. These however they are very much in the minority. The reality is that the vast majority of tenants are honest, hardworking people. Keeping a roof over the heads of their families and themselves is and will always be their main priority.
Therefore, if your tenant gets in contact with your regarding potential issues with their rent payment first of all please get all the facts. What’s happened? Are all tenants on the tenancy affected? Has the tenant’s employer ceased trading? Have their hours been reduced? Have they been laid off temporarily or asked to take unpaid leave? Are they self-employed and unable to continue trading?
Please remember that you can and should ask the tenants to provide proof that they are experiencing financial difficulties due to the current pandemic. You can justify that by saying that you need it for your mortgage provider to get your rates deferred. Proof can be provided as follows:
·
· · · · ·
Sick note obtainable via 111.nhs.uk/covid-19 - tenants are advised not to contact their doctor or visit their hospital except in emergencies
Comparable wage sips showing a decrease income or SSP payments.
Bank statements for comparison showing the same decrease in income.
Letter from their employer showing reduced hours/lay off Letter from their accountant confirming a reduction in income Copy of a benefits claim or proof this has been submitted.

You will then need to establish what the tenant’s current financial position is? How long are they able to carry on paying their rent in full? Are they able to pay some rent? Are they unable to pay any rent?
Most tenants are not aware what help is available. Is the tenant aware that they can make a claim for benefit immediately? Have they contacted their local council? Have they looked on the Government Housing Benefit websitewww.gov.uk/benefits-calculators and www.gov.uk/housing-benefit/how-to-claim.
The information included in the Prime Ministers speech was very basic and has been misunderstood by a number of tenants that have contacted us. Tenants may have heard about ‘payment holidays’ for landlords on their mortgages. It is important to clarify to your tenants that this simply defers the payments into the future and that landlords will have to make up the missed payments at a later date. In the same way, rent is still due and will accrue even if it is deferred temporarily, so anything the tenant can do to minimise their debt will help in the long term. With that in mind you should make sure that your tenant proposes an agreeable payment plan during this period of disruption.
Please call or email us if you would like any further advice or help.

@Drpeppered UC isnt 57 a week...
Im on UC and i get 580 a month rent and £80 a week
And then obviously children's money but they dont say of they have kids.

Joint claimants get £500 a month and then rent paid aswell.... If over 25

They are being CF because they've basically said they aren't paying as can't be evicted.

They haven't made any attempt to talk to OP and discuss a way forward.

OP can apply for mortgage holiday but that will incur interest. If they can pay a small amount to cover that interest OP can work with them.

Yes it's totally shit. But it's not for one person to be left in debt because of another without at least trying to work out a solution.
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They are refusing to pay anything even though the OP has already said she wouldn't count it as arrears. Unfortunately too many people using this as an excuse to not pay bills. I work for a bank and people still in work were and have been ringing up for breaks on mortgages and loans, freezing interest, etc.

All of you posting just take a mortgage break, Do you understand that a mortgage break doesn't make them payments disappear? They are added to the end of the mortgage and the OP is still expected to pay that. If the tenants will receive help towards the rent then the OP should be getting that from them in order to limit the 'break' she will have to take.

Its not unreasonable to ask a tenant to check while applying for benefits if they will be entitled to help towards costs of accommodation.

It might be all well and good saying apply for this and that but none of it will happen overnight. My DP who is self employed done and online UC a week ago, was told to phone and make a face to face appointment, he’s been on hold for 5 days!!
None of this help/££ is going to be quick.
The tenants should be open to discussion, their attitude isn’t good.

You have my sympathy, OP. You’re in a very stressful situation, far from home and birth family during this crisis. You don’t need CFs causing you financial stress too. A crisis brings out the worst in some people.

I hope this isn’t putting you at risk of losing your home, and I hope you can get help, eg with a mortgage holiday.
Best of luck.