The people who have fiddled the numbers to avoid paying tax or paying child maintenance. What will they do when they try to claim assistance due to CV?

[zZyYxX]

That’s it really.
If you’ve successfully hidden your actual income from HMRC to dodge paying tax or child maintenance, what are you planning to do?
If you’re the other parent in this scenario, how are you feeling at the moment? Is this karma? Or will it wind up being worse for you and your dc in the long run?
I’m not sure what to think.

I’ve name changed as I don’t want to link this thread to any previous threads regarding my own situation.
Been here a decade. Cutted up pear. Your minge! . Penis beaker yada yada.

Some good news at last.

I think what a lot of people are missing about receiving pay via dividends is that (unlike Amazon etc) our (one-person) companies are paying corporation tax, and in many cases VAT.
If taken as a whole, we are paying similar amounts of tax/ni - in fact more is being paid in many cases, but HMRC and the government is peddling the lie that we are dodging tax in some way, whilst letting big corporations pay little or no corporation tax and millionaires be based elsewhere and pay no UK tax.

A previous poster mentioned Debbie Downer ....I think Debbie-dob-you-in will be twitching her curtains when it comes to to the self-employed and thier various ruses 🤔

@ChrissieKeller61 I have absolutely no luck whatever with these things and life generally but as a complete stroke of luck I was applying for a mortgage so have for the first time ever paid myself properly for the past three months
Why oh why would anyone come here to admit that they have been dodging tax and then post to say that they got lucky that they have avoided the consequences? Talk about being smug? Talk about having got it wrong and having to read that it will indeed backfire. That's double karma!

I don't get the dividend business, but surely if paying dividends is advised as most efficient way to be paid, it's got to be because it means paying less tax, otherwise why do it? It seems unfair that if tax is paid on dividends, it should mean no compensation at all, but there are using this crisis to pass a message.

'the self employed and their various ruses'

Yeah, because we're all like del boy aren't we? Fiddling and ducking and diving?! ... Except we're not.

In the vast majority of cases we are extremely hard working people, often working up to 7 days a week with no holiday pay, sick pay or maternity benefits. We're also paying our fair share of tax and adhering to the rules that the government has set for us. I have worked for myself for 5.5 years and work far harder now than I ever did in my previous job in the public sector with much longer hours. I have often paid my staff when I have been unable to pay myself and now am able to offer 4 other individuals employment. I have done all this in the mistaken belief that I was building something for my future and for my family. It's all just disappeared virtually overnight and through no fault of my own, no mismanagement. Its heartbreaking.

I was jaw-dropped to find that someone I knew was indeed saying that due to lots of cash payments, income could not be proved. Not a lot of sympathy there - clearly it wasn't the cash itself it was the face that it wasn't going through the books.

I also got sneered at once for not trying to evade VAT on a big purchase. Had I done so, that person would also have their income affected now.

karma in action...

Yep I know someone who gets paid £185 a day and the majority of it is in cash.

I tried explaining to him a few months ago while he didn’t get sick/holiday pay he earns a lot more than the average employee therefore if he just saved £10 a day it would cover him in an emergency/holiday.

He sees how much is in his wallet and spends every last penny. I would maybe feel bad but only last month he called us a fool for paying tax as the government never do anything for us.

Only last month he called us a full for paying tax
So not only is he on the fiddle he also can't restrain himself from bragging about it 🤣😂🤣😂
What a dick 🤣😂

Very sorry Ricksanchez🙏 I should have phrased that differently I know that there are many self-employed people who are completely conscientious and above board.
I am gutted for the people whose businesses have been destroyed by this, I'm sorry and I hope things work out for you 🙏

Oh well their problem.

The people who declare correct income and pay correct taxes will get the correct assistance.
Tax dodgers, cash in hand, ramped up expenses, etc etc etc.... lol oh well tough!

I have a friend who does hair dressing from home. She charges salon prices, has a big client base, and I'm convinced most of the money goes under the radar. (She always charges cash.)

I do feel for her though as she has shot herself in the foot. She is a single mum so maybe Universal Credit will apply to her.

She has shot herself in the foot
she'll have lots of her 'dirty money' stashed under the mattress won't she?
Anyone who's onto nice little number like that must realise the tide could turn against them and they need to have some savings?
She's intelligent enough to work that out, isn't she?

The people that might have a cash stash somewhere might also be scuppered when a lot of places dont want to receive cash at the moment for contamination reasons!
How will they get rid of all their old 20s now?

I do think anyone taking cash payments and avoiding their tax will sorely regret it now. They also give the rest of us a bad name. As is evidenced by this thread, it seems like everyone expects us to be on the fiddle, even though that's not the case. How they'll differentiate between those who are following guidance and those that aren't is anyone's guess.

They’re scumbags, this minority of self employed people who make every effort to dodge tax, but I wouldn’t particularly want their kids to go hungry so I’m glad that UC will be an option.

Hopefully they won’t slyly carry on working (with the risk of infection) in the absence of this government help. They’re the types who might, unfortunately. People who dodge tax won’t care about spreading the virus.

Anyone who's onto nice little number like that must realise the tide could turn against them and they need to have some savings?
She's intelligent enough to work that out, isn't she?

Probably not.

I think this is all fair enough, if you haven't been paying into the system when you should have been, you shouldn't benefit from it now.

I know a huge amount of people who work as Freelancers in TV and Film - which is what my DH and myself used to do. My son is one of them. He is paid properly and officially by whichever production he is working on and pays national insurance and pension like everyone else. He puts money away in a separate account to pay his tax which is due next month. The usual calendar is that productions don't work much in January and February and then crew up in March. This is now not happening at all so people like DS are getting contracts/promises of work cancelled with absolutely no chance of the industry starting up again for quite some while. The majority of FL workers work bloody hard with ludicrously long days and without sick pay and holiday pay. They are now waiting to hear what help will be offered to them. It is very unclear atm. DS has had the virus and is now recovering so hopefully be able to pick up some driving or delivery work to get him by once he has fully recovered. Freelancers in TV and Film are not tax dodgers. That is the way they are all employed now - there is no other option. We did try and persuade him to get a "proper" job ...

Yep I know someone who gets paid £185 a day and the majority of it is in cash....

He sees how much is in his wallet and spends every last penny. I would maybe feel bad but only last month he called us a fool for paying tax as the government never do anything for us.

Well, between him and you, one of you certainly is a fool! How does he expect the government to be able to do anything for anybody if nobody pays any taxes? Besides, I'm no fan of governments in general, but there's an awful lot that they fund behind the scenes that many people don't appreciate, without which society would crumble. Does he have children? Are they state-educated? Has he ever used any part of the NHS? Would he not call the police on principle if he needed them, because he isn't a 'member' of the society that supports them?

I don't know him, but I'm guessing he's one of the first to complain about government failures or shortcomings when it affects him adversely.Tax-robbing CFs are the same as any other CFs in that they get furious when they aren't able to take 100%, despite refusing to ever give a single bit.

I'd be surprised if he isn't already on the government's radar anyway. Presumably, he isn't claiming unemployment-related benefits, so they'll know he must either be of independent means or earning and not declaring it. He must use a bank account - surely he can't pay for everything in cash? No online purchases? No phone or utilities that demand you set up a DD?

The government wouldn't have to do very much digging at all to prove that his outgoings massively exceed his legally-declared assets and income and to start asking some very awkward questions indeed. He could also find that he no longer has to budget for paying for his accommodation for a number of years, but that might not be quite the 'win' that it could sound....

here'll be plenty of bosses with salaried staff claiming they've furloughed them to get the 80% when the staff are still working on the quiet

(Not really - because there are systems in place to do real time figures - you have to report to HMRC who you have paid every month and how much.)

Posted in legal this is happening to a friend.

Company meeting been told employees are being furloughed soon end of week possibly
Company want to call them back in to work after furloughed if company get work in.
If ,you do not come in after being furloughed they are going to sack you.
If you do come in and work he has said he will not pay them for work done until after crisis is over.
He doesn’t want to lose his workforce expects them all to do this
Can you keep being furloughed Week after week?

They think he is doing this so they can get 80% pay and still come in when needed where he will pay later, if at all, he’s notorious for doing things underhand. They may well have work taking them well above the 80% payment, where he will not pay them for moths, if at all.

Friends partner is on mat leave and very worried about this.

Be interesting who doesn’t apply for it because they don’t want to hand over their details to HMRC. And also interesting what HMRC do with the data received..from everyone.

@Coqohvan apparently Johnson has said employers like the one you describe who make employees work unnecessarily and/or don’t pay them as per rules are going to be facing prosecution and large fines when all this settles. Now I’m no fan of Johnson usually but he is absolutely right to do this if true.

It will indeed be very interesting to see what hmrc do after with the info they receive.

I’ve found it particularly interesting when those I know don’t pay the amount of tax they should have been most vocal about the lack of support being offered. karma!

Be interesting who doesn’t apply for it because they don’t want to hand over their details to HMRC.

Eh? Anyone legit (which is the vast majority) hand over stacks of info to HMRC all the time.

I’ve never been affected by this but the threads on it give me the rage, so I have to say I’m rather gleeful at the thought of the utter twatbadgers who fiddle their incomes to avoid paying for their own children getting all the rewards they richly deserve.*

*while also wishing it hadn’t taken a global pandemic to achieve this and that the government would look lively on this and find a way to close the loopholes and make sure these children don’t lose out.

I’m sure those companies where they pay their wife to sit at home and do nothing but say she is on the payroll will be laughing as they get the 80%. Paying yourself a dividend instead of a salary via PAYE was to avoid tax. You could phone HMRC and explain.