The people who have fiddled the numbers to avoid paying tax or paying child maintenance. What will they do when they try to claim assistance due to CV?

[zZyYxX]

That’s it really.
If you’ve successfully hidden your actual income from HMRC to dodge paying tax or child maintenance, what are you planning to do?
If you’re the other parent in this scenario, how are you feeling at the moment? Is this karma? Or will it wind up being worse for you and your dc in the long run?
I’m not sure what to think.

I’ve name changed as I don’t want to link this thread to any previous threads regarding my own situation.
Been here a decade. Cutted up pear. Your minge! . Penis beaker yada yada.

Oooohhhh interesting point op!

They can’t claim they earn “X” for purposes of claiming now when they’ve been telling hmrc/cms they “only” earn “x - y” for years!!

Let’s hope the relevant depts connect up! Not holding my breath though.

Must admit hadn’t occurred to me as I’m past that stage with dd now and my ex was employed but I’m aware of the issues those with self employed ex’s have had for many years and of course general tax dodging.

I am of course supportive of the self employed who play it straight but no sympathy for the con merchants!

@gypsy I use cash for nothing now I pay via bank account for everything it’s actually a good way of sussing out the cons!

If they’ll con hmrc they’ll con you too and not think twice!

Chancellor is apparently announcing the package for self employed tomorrow. I think it will be based on previous declarations.

Here's the proposed amendment, it's incredibly vague...............

“Statutory self-employment pay

(1) The Secretary of State must, by regulations, introduce a scheme of Statutory Self-Employment Pay.

(2) The scheme must make provision for payments to be made out of public funds to individuals who are

(a) self-employed, or

(b) freelancers.

(3) The payments to be made in subsection (2) are to be set so that the net monthly earnings of an individual specified in subsection (2) do not fall below—

(i) 80 per cent of their monthly net earnings, averaged over the last three years, or

(ii) £2,917

whichever is lower.

(4) No payment to be made under subsection (2) shall exceed £2,917 per month.

(5) A statutory instrument containing regulations under this section is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.

Member’s explanatory statement

The purpose of this amendment is to make the Government ‘top up’ self-employed workers’ earnings to the lower of 80% of their net monthly earnings averaged over three years, or £2,917 a month.

@Needtoknow

As a childminder we are allowed to claim % of our utilities and phone bill plus we provide nappies and wipes and food and craft activities and toys and days out and then we have to replace equipment like car seats and high chairs and pushchairs regularly. It really does mount up. My home is a mini nursery and I only charge £3.25 an hour with max 3 kids a day! So yes I'm sure of my incomings and outgoings!

Never have I ever been so thankful for being honest as I do now. Self employed for almost 10 years and every penny declared, tax paid up to date etc. It’s almost a victory for the honest self employed. I hope that they do go with averages based on last 3 years accounts.

My husband is self employed and he declares every single penny he earns. He has often moaned about other tradesmen who don't and how it makes him really cross as he's so honest. Well, his income has literally stopped so we wait for the news tomorrow, but I'm so glad that for.once honesty and being a genuine person is a good thing.

My hairdresser complained recently that she couldn’t get the mortgage she wanted as her accountant had been “too good” at reducing her taxable earnings so she didn’t have sufficient verifiable income.

As a PAYE earner who pays a shedload of tax (and am glad to do so), I had a little chuckle then. She’ll be equally screwed now, but those who choose not to contribute can’t expect support.

My DH is self-employed and genuinely only earns around £12k a year, as he works sporadically around the children. When he does go over the tax threshold we don’t do anything to try to reduce his earnings below it, we just pay the tax that’s due.

I miss the penis beaker thread 😭😂 those were the days!

Hmmm. What about people who are new to self employment or who haven't had much income over the last couple of years because of having children.

Those would definitely be better off in UC. The aim of this financial support is so that these businesses are there waiting to go when we recover

@ChrissieKeller61 I have absolutely no luck whatever with these things and life generally but as a complete stroke of luck I was applying for a mortgage so have for the first time ever paid myself properly for the past three months

Unfortunately they will be taking your average earnings over 3 years and not 3 months.

I’ve got no problem with self employed (or anyone who’s financially damaged by CV) being able to claim help. It is what the welfare system is for after all.
It would be nice if some of those who moan about scroungers find a new awareness of the fact that anyone can find themselves in difficulties through no fault of their own, and gain a little empathy and compassion.
But I suspect not.

My DH has a small business which really suffered after the last recession and we finally felt like we were making some upward progress this last year, and were hoping to reduce our (quite substantial) overdraft. However the last 3 years of logged accounts are a loss, a tiny profit, and a v slightly bigger one. The average will be so minimal I'm not sure it will be worth the hassle of claiming.
We're late submitting our last set of accounts which would have shown (I hope!) a bigger profit so that's us being punished for not submitting our accounts on time.

I've been thinking the same. Posted on lone parents as I wasnt brave enough for aibu! Isnt it now 80% of your pay up to a certain amount for self employed? Karma police calling neenaww!!

Tinnitus Queen - I'm sure they'll be taking an average of whatever records are available, they can't exclude people for only having been up and running for a short time. Also there's nothing wrong with an accountant reducing your taxable earnings - an accountant will include all those things you didn't know you could include in your expenses and and an accountant charges for their services too, also an expense. Because of the way mortgage companies view self-employment many people actually end up over declaring their earnings (i.e don't claim their allowed expenses) in order to qualify for a mortgage and end up with a massive tax bill to pay later, bigger than it should have been. Some mortgage companies, just like the government, don't always have a very good understanding of self employment either.

I'd imagine all those who have underpaid their tax have loads-a-money sitting in accounts somewhere. They can just live off that.

There’s a few of us here that do declare all income, work from a home shed instead of a business premises, been advised to become a company and a director instead of a sole trader for more protection and to take a salary instead of dividends to secure a mortgage. We now fall under NO category for the announced for help!!

I know a tiler who hasn't paid any tax in years..no work at present or savings and he is eating a bowl of pasta a day and egg sandwiches..he is currently house sitting for a friend so no rent but he is barely eating !

I am a director of a small Ltd business, very releaved I can pay my now furloughed staff 80% of their wages. I have always declared every penny I have earned and paid all my tax due. My accountant is as straight as a die and I'm glad of it - I've never had to worry about being audited or not paying something. All that said, he has always maintained that the most tax efficient way to pay myself was through a small sum via PAYE and a dividend. I take these together each month as a wage. I'm worrying that if I'm only entitled to 80% of the PAYE amount it won't be enough to live on but I keep hearing that dividends won't be included. Surely if this is the most tax efficient way of paying yourself most directors do this? Does this mean we're all screwed. I've paid nearly 50k in tax this year, but could end up with less than £400 per month.

Relieved for goodness sake!

Sorry, that should read, I pay almost 50k tax a year, I haven't paid it all already.

Sadly there are lots of people still getting screwed and finding holes in the ‘safety net’ were supposed to have.

Today I heard about my estranged father who rewrites his books to pay no tax and pays employees cash. He’ll be fine -cash under the bed- but he’s about to lose all his loyal staff because most of them don’t officially work for him (or not enough to lose their benefits) so he won’t be able to claim their wages from the govt. Nor his own lost income. I have no sympathy for him. And I can’t see why I should. Tax isn’t money for nothing.

A taxi driver neighbour previously told DH he clears around £700 pw but only declares around £100pw to the taxman, so his family get maximum tax credits etc.

Poor thing 😂😂

Thems the breaks 🤷🏽‍♀️

Cutted up pear. Your minge! Penis beaker

Those were the days my friend.

Another one here having a quick grin. For those of us who pay every penny due... But, I am wondering this.

What about the builder blokes who are still working outside (read on other threads, doing garden work, outside building) for cash, I bet they're also going to claim the 80% just like most of the labourers they use are on benefits and get a daily cash amount?

So even though we are grinning that they get 80% of what they've declared, they are still having a laugh on the system because the 80% is for having to stay off work but they won't?

Sorry, don't mean to be Debby Downer here but...

There'll be plenty of bosses with salaried staff claiming they've furloughed them to get the 80% when the staff are still working on the quiet. With loads of people working from home there's no way of checking up who's doing what. No salaried staff member who earns £2500 or less is going to blow the whistle because they're still getting paid either way.

But what's the government to do? They're not stupid, they know people are going to abuse this but they're doing it anyway, which is fantastic, for now. Fingers crossed HMRC's IT department actually manage to implement the system before life goes back to normal! There lies the real problem. They've got a month to get the PAYE side up and running, self employed much more complicated.