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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Looking after your own children IS work

999 replies

Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 09:20

Oxford Dictionary definition of "work":
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result

AIBU to suggest that the people that suggest that looking after one's own children isn't work are wrong and in some cases are actively trying to devalue and undermine the people (usually women) that do the majority of childcare?

Would be really interested to understand how anyone can read this definition and argue that looking after children isn't work.

OP posts:
Fieldofgreycorn · 13/03/2020 01:10

I’m surprised but glad others feel the same way here.

Staying at home is hard work and it is valuable. But it’s not ‘work’.

I sit in an office all day purely to earn money. People have children for their own personal fulfilment. It’s definitely not ‘work’.

Lilymossflower · 13/03/2020 02:12

Agree with op. The patriarchy does not value our work as real work because it wants us to be undermined and devalued

RainMinusBow · 13/03/2020 02:51

It's not always about choice either. I work full-time because I have to - it's that simple. Sure there are many others in the same boat.

Sparkles9768 · 13/03/2020 04:55

I find staying at home with the children more difficult than going to work. I am on maternity leave for the second time and I feel like a domestic slave that is always trying to clean more and cook more bake more, justify my day as productive to myself ( does that make sense?), coupled with the constant mental drudgery of dealing with small children with no breaks, it can feel like an oppressive hell. Yea, sometimes I veg in front of the TV, but it's not a rewarding feeling of getting a break on a weekend after working, but just feeling mentally down and having nothing else to do. A lot of working parents are so smug on this thread, but if they had to stay at home full time they might start feeling differently, being an undervalued domestic slave with no money of your own is not my definition of a good time. I take my hat of to SAHMs, it is a thankless job and this thread proves it.

Sparkles9768 · 13/03/2020 04:59

I would like to add that I am not depressed and do love my children Smile I am just excited to get back to work because my job work is actually valued, and my home work is not , despite me working my ass off cleaning cooking baking rinse repeat !

Bluntness100 · 13/03/2020 05:12

Personally I never considered looking after my daughter as work. But I did work when she was little so for me there was a differential, when at home with her in the evenings, feeding her, playing with her, bathing her etc never came under the definition of work for me, it was simply being with my child and caring for her, but I get everyone is different and some folks do classify looking after their own kids as work.

Each to their own.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 13/03/2020 05:52

I feel I have to work full time to pay the bills

I guess I could live off UC with the maintenance I receive from ds dad but I really don’t wish to

And no not jealous of sahm. To be honest I know many who’s lives have because so small now their children are at school that any little issue a drama is created. I find my job very fulfilling and I am passing on a good work ethic to my ds. He understands that my work is import and that I have to work hard to pay he bills. I believe for him growing up in a single parent household and experiencing this is important. I wouldn’t value myself the same way if I didn’t work out of choice and I don’t believe he would as he gets older

Namenic · 13/03/2020 05:52

Definitely work - mandatory work. Like eating/cooking, showering, laundry, commuting, paying bills is work. Different people have different standards/requirements for each of these.

Some wish for their kids to be entertained, educated (outside statuatory school time), others just wish for their kids to be safe. Some people will eat minimally prepared easy food, others want healthy food, variety, good tasting food. Some people live in a messy place, others like things to be tidy.

People either choose to spend more effort themselves to meet their requirements or they pay for someone to do it or they get relatives/friends to help.

Some people would wish to do more in an area but cannot due to financial or other circumstances. It’s just nice to appreciate that others are doing their best to meet their specific requirements. And that if things are not working out - maybe we have to reconsider the options?

AngstyAnnie · 13/03/2020 07:11

Christ these comments...

The patriarchy sure has done a number on us. All of us. Sad to see.

LolaSmiles · 13/03/2020 07:20

The patriarchy sure has done a number on us. All of us. Sad to see
The patriarchy has done a number on us.

I don't think the solution is for people to try and argue that any tasks they do that could be outsourced is the same as having that job.

Staying home is hard, working is hard, both have their challenges. The way forward is to value all the situations for what they are rather than getting into the silly nonsense on some threads like this where paying bills is household admin and totally like being a PA, cooking family meals is basically being a chef, looking after children at home is the same as a qualified professional in a childcare setting etc (usually with two or three people saying "you should bill DH/DP for the hours..." 🙄)

stophuggingme · 13/03/2020 07:22

I’ve run out of popcorn 🍿

TabbyMumz · 13/03/2020 07:23

“ Sorry, but that's just bolloxs.”

"No it’s not. It’s other people’s experience and just as valid as yours."

The comment I made about it being bolloxs was referring to the comment that people love their job just as much as their family. Clearly bolloxs.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 13/03/2020 07:38

I don’t feel particularly valued at work but I know in myself he work I do is important I see results

Why do I need strangers to tell me wow you are great at what you are doing adding such value to society

Really some people have too much time on their hands to think about how others value them many of us are too busy getting on with life to be concerned by this

dontdisturbmenow · 13/03/2020 07:38

A lot of working parents are so smug on this thread, but if they had to stay at home full time they might start feeling differently, being an undervalued domestic slave with no money of your own is not my definition of a good time
But that's the point, for some workers, when they do stay at home with their kids, they find it a breeze compared to going to work.

Why can't people comprehend that we are comparing apples and pears. That looking after 4 little ones is likely to be more demanding and therefore feeling like work than someone working in a relaxed work atmosphere, with no commute, doing something they enjoy, but that similarly, and this is the much more common scenario, we are talking about comparing someone working in a a stressful environment, dealing with commuting, dropping kids in different places before rushing to work, and that is no doubt much harder than the mum with one or two kids, who drops them to school, then has no other duties until 3pm then doing a bit of cleaning with the rest of time to her leisure.

I too wanted to go back to work when I was on maternity leave, but I would have given anything to be a SAHM when both started school!!!

As for the patriarch comments, what a lot of crap. Any mother is free to go back to work if they think it's easier and more rewarding and limit the number of kids she has. Might to wait a couple of years until claiming the 30h childcare, but ultimately, no mother is forced to be a sahm for decades.

RainMinusBow · 13/03/2020 07:42

Ultimately I think those who have the choice should be grateful 😊

lazylinguist · 13/03/2020 07:46

'Is it work?' and 'Is it hard?' are different questions. It's about the particular definition of the word 'work' you're choosing to use. If it were just about how hard stuff is, then you could compare two different actual paid jobs and claim that one of them didn't count as work because it was easy.

User33333333 · 13/03/2020 08:00

it can feel like an oppressive hell. Yea, sometimes I veg in front of the TV, but it's not a rewarding feeling of getting a break on a weekend after working, but just feeling mentally down and having nothing else to do. A lot of working parents are so smug on this thread, but if they had to stay at home full time they might start feeling differently, being an undervalued domestic slave with no money of your own is not my definition of a good time. I take my hat of to SAHMs, it is a thankless job and this thread proves it

Anyone would think you'd been forced into it. You do realise it's a choice right??

Like people who have 4 kids and then demand sympathy for the amount of laundry they have to do.

Maybe don't have so many kids then if it's so oppressive, hell, unrewarding, hard, awful, like being an undervalued domestic slave etc etc.

You literally chose to do it. More than once.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 13/03/2020 08:03

Smug - or just pointing out we do all that’s needed too as we have to

I have been a sahm i was on my own doing everything if someone feels undervalued that is more about their relationship either with a partner or with themselves

Children don’t value parents until they are older and have more understanding. Others are often too busy and people don’t care that much

But if you are a sahm when you do meet new people and they ask what do you do well what is there to say so then maybe you do feel undervalued but so will many who work in that situation not all jobs appear valuable or interesting

TabbyMumz · 13/03/2020 08:06

"A lot of working parents are so smug on this thread, but if they had to stay at home full time they might start feeling differently, being an undervalued domestic slave with no money of your own is not my definition of a good time"

If it's that bad, why do Women do it? It's like some people like being miserable. Undervalued domestic slave? How awful.

Mystraightenersarebroken · 13/03/2020 08:17

Depressing thread 😞

Oooom · 13/03/2020 08:22

Exactly lazy. It’s a nonsense question. You might as well ask, what is proper “work” - being a pizza delivery person or a gardener?

I personally would have found it harder bringing up my kids if I’d also been working, but that’s because I was working in Child Protection and I would have found it difficult to switch between the two, eg you’re fussing about the your own kids homework or something in the morning and then you go to work and there’s babies being born addicted to heroin. But if I’d had maybe a creative job or a fairly low stress office job with a group of people I enjoyed working with, then it might have been a good balance and, as such less mentally draining overall. Because what’s draining as a SAHM, is not the individual tasks, it’s the relentlessness of it and you never get a change of scene or a break.

My friend who always worked, employed a fantastic nanny, so of course she looked forward to the hours she spent with her kids in the evenings. Her and her husband would both come home at 6pm. The kids had had dinner; homework done; house tidied and laundry on. So of course they could enjoy reading stories with the kids or playing at bedtime. They wouldn’t have felt the same if they’d been doing the same all day.

I do think it’s very hard for parents who have to rush in the mornings to drop their kids off very early at day nurseries and then fight through traffic to pick them up. Then they get home and have tired cranky kids and still have everything else to do before they do it all again the next day.

But as someone said upthread, it apples and pears. We had 4 children so I was with at least one pre-schooler every day for ten years. My idea of a “break” was sitting on a tube without kids, or going round Tesco handsfree, even though the tube had been the bane if my life when I’d been working. It’s funny how your perspectives change.

I never even thought about whether I was “working” or not because frankly when you’re with 4 children you don’t have time. When people used to say to me, “How do you cope with 4 under 8 and your DH away so much?” I used to wonder what they were talking about because that was the life we’d chosen and what else was I supposed to do?

I have a plan to return to “proper work” now, in my mid 40s and this will happen in the next two years (though I’ll be working for myself). Yes it will put more pressure in the family in one sense, but in another sense, it will give me a “break” in the sense of an identity outside being a mum and wife because what’s draining as a SAHM is that you can very easily lose yourself and this is bad for mental health.

There’s no right or wrong here and it doesn’t matter who is working harder or whatever. There will always be people who have more or less stressful lives than you and it’s not a competition. In different circumstances, I would have been working no doubt. Maybe I would have only had one or two DC? But I married the man I did and this is how we have organised ourselves because it make the most sense in our psruvukst circumstances.

dontdisturbmenow · 13/03/2020 08:25

There are countless threads about working mum's who ask if they should give up their job after having a child because working would only pay for childcare, and when posters comment that it might be better for their future etc..., it is clear that the decision has already been made and they are just seeking affirmation that staying home is the right thing to do.

If work is so much more rewarding and easier, why not go back to work even if there is no financial advantage?

BeetrootRocks · 13/03/2020 08:29

Going back to work after children should be paid by the family not just the woman.
And things like future earnings, promotion, pension etc should be taken into account.

Too much children are seen as solely the woman's responsibility. Her decision to have them, hers to arrange care for, for her to potentially feel bad about either working or not working. The men are invisible in this all too often.

I am still trying to get my head round the fact that so many people would say eg I'm going some work on the car is no longer a correct use of language!

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 13/03/2020 08:31

As someone said early its just the use of words....employed would be a much better one to use

I ask the children if they worked hard at school

School tell me that my child is working towards a certain level

My dad says he has been working in his garden

Following a debate with a friend she said ‘god that was hard work’

Dh asked was the telly working

Now im just going to yell ‘ARE YOU GETTING PAID...IS THE TELLY GETTING PAID...THEN ITS NOT FUCKING WORK IS IT’

(Lighthearted before anyone yells at me or threatens me with a dictionary definition)

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 13/03/2020 08:32

Oooh cross post beetroot