‘Tricked’ by vegan sausages

[Rhubarbpeony]

I had a friend round for dinner last night. It was a last minute plan (she lives in another city and only told me on the day that she was free that evening) so I didn’t make anything fancy. I had in the fridge a packet of Richmond vegan sausages and some potatoes, which I turned into olive oil mash. I’ve been vegan for about ten years - longer than the entire time I have known this friend. We have cooked for each other many times in the past.

As we were finishing eating, my husband got home from a late work event and saw that we had had the sausages. It’s not a brand we have tried before and they’re much cheaper than the kind we usually get, so he asked if they had been nice. I said they were good, and I’d happily have them again.

Friend gets a really odd look on her face and then says to me ‘you didn’t tell me these were vegan sausages.’ I said no, I assumed she would know that anything I cooked or ate would be vegan. She said I was wrong to assume, and that I had tricked her. She said it would be like me coming to dinner at her house and being tricked into eating a meat sausage.

AIBU or are these two things not the same?! For one thing, I definitely don’t feel like I tricked her - she saw me cook the sausages, and if she had asked anything about them I would have told her what was in them. For another, her diet doesn’t preclude her from eating vegan items, but mine does preclude me from eating meat, so IMO it’s a lot worse to give a vegan a meat sausage than it is to give a non-vegan a vegan sausage.

(for info: the sausages don’t contain any soy, and she doesn’t have any food allergies)

I’ve heard of people getting upset stomachs etc after eating meat replacements so I think it’s always good to tell someone what you’ve given them regardless of what it is.

Ive seen quite a few people feel weird about meat replacements too, and wouldn’t like to eat them. Just because something isn’t a dead animal it doesn’t give you the right to serve it and not understand someone’s annoyance at not being told what it is.

Not all vegans eat meat replacements and I’m sure there’s many who wouldn’t.

@GinAndNightnurse Me too. With companies whacking VEGAN on things just to bring in the vegan market, and without thinking through the ethics, it's like doing a Rubik's puzzle just choosing a soap. There's so many factors to consider. It's safer not to eat or drink or wash at all. Although deadly.

@Inthepurplerain I do get where you’re coming from - it just didn’t occur to me that she didn’t realise they weren’t meat. I assumed that since she saw me cooking and eating them and since she knows I’m vegan, she would’ve assumed they were vegan. She’s also eaten meat substitutes I’ve cooked for her in the past without it being an issue. If she genuinely thought they were meat, I don’t know why she didn’t ask me why I was eating them!

Veganism isn’t perfect either.

I’d sooner eat local meat and dairy- british fruit than avocados, chickpeas and chia seeds to name a few of which have to be traveled far to get to the uk.

Oh and what about the soybeans in your Richmond sausages?
They certainly aren’t local either.

@Rhubarbpeony they look really meat like, especially the skin and way they crisp.

I find it weird this wasn’t a conversation? Haha

@Rhubarbpeony

To be quite honest I get really pissed off with how vegans expect you to cook vegan for them, and buy special stuff in, soy milk and shit (that we wouldn't normally buy,) costing us extra money (and extra time...) But at the same time, they won't cater to us, because of their 'beliefs.' What if it's against our 'beliefs' to not eat a meal that has no meat in it?

What's more, some of it is OK but some tastes awful or bland. We had a vegan meal made for us on Boxing day by an extended family member, and it was a huge challenge eating it, and me and DH left half. It was soooooooo bland and dull.

Because the vegans we know, never cater to OUR requirements, I always get take-out or go out for a meal with the vegans I know because I think it's an unfair balance, for us to always cater to them, but for them to never return the favour.

Some vegans blather on about their beliefs and their rights, but it's always so one-sided, and it's ALWAYS about THEM. And some of them do have an air of superiority about them. One vegan I know (30-something woman,) said a while back 'the reason I act superior and like I'm better than you is because I am.' Yep, these words actually came out of her mouth.

Personally, I will be glad when this ridiculous vegan FAD has passed. It's tiresome. (And it IS a fad for most of them!)

Anyway, this aside, I do think YANBU and your friend is being unreasonable. If she didn't even notice it was vegan muck food, then it must have tasted OK.

@GinAndNightnurse

That's absolutely fine - plenty of people don't. I don't. I think it's a well-meaning but largely misguided fad and I know several ex vegans who have already given up on it.

Same here. I know at LEAST half a dozen people who were smug and pious because they were vegans, who gave up on it after 2-3 years. Not gonna lie, they look pretty daft now after all their preaching, and looking down their nose at people, and thinking they're superior.

It is a VERY hard lifestyle to keep up full-time, and you have to be very committed. There are a few vegans - genuine vegans - who are OK, and not preachy, and don't yabber on about it, and have been vegan for a decade or more (since before the FAD kicked in.) But I know more vegans who are incredibly irksome, and who think they're superior to meat eaters.

AND it still grates on me that meat eaters are meant to cater to them, but they never return the favour. Even a microwave chicken tikka would be OK. I'll even dish the bastard thing out onto the plate myself FFS.

That said, I do think we should all eat more ethically, more locally, more seasonally, eat less processed junk and less meat and be much more responsible about the meat and dairy we eat, in terms of quantity, welfare and provenance.

Agree with this. And I do! We have lots of farms around us, and me and DH eat lots of local stuff, and ethically produced goods. And we eat mostly white meat and fish anyway.

@Inthepurplerain

Veganism isn’t perfect either.

I’d sooner eat local meat and dairy- british fruit than avocados, chickpeas and chia seeds to name a few of which have to be traveled far to get to the uk.

Oh and what about the soybeans in your Richmond sausages? They certainly aren’t local either.

Yep this too. ^

As I said, some vegans act like they're superior, but they're really not.

@Inthepurplerain the environmental footprint of local meat and dairy is significantly worse than the environmental footprint of foods like avocado which are imported from abroad.

Lots of vegan foods can be unethical - palm oil, chocolate which isn’t fair trade, almonds etc - but from an environmental perspective the difference is stark.

She should have expected them to be Vegan. If it was me, I would have asked to make sure but only because I’m highly sensitive to soy and pumpkin seeds.

@PersephoneandHades I don't believe that at all. Many people I have a moral belief that eating meat is good and healthy, and veganism is a fad diet and is not. Someone in a store once said to me that veganism is a fad diet masquerading as ethics but is more a cult. Many don't believe that it is any more or less about 'morals' than eating meat is. That people refer to it as similar to a religion does give me pause for thought that the person in the store was right about the cult aspect. People who eat meat do so from a moral, cultural and ethical belief too. Vegans are no more moral or pure or ethical than meat eaters, though they seem to think they are.

Each to their own is what I say, I've tried all manner of diets and lifestyle choices, you name it. But it does put people off when vegans think they have more morals and ethics than meat eaters, that is not true, and it just feeds into the fad cult diet narrative. They make a 'moral belief' to not consume animal products. Meat eaters make a 'moral belief' to consume animal products.

*Many people I
should be many people I know

Is there a name for 'the diet that precludes eating vegan products'? I've never heard of it.

I know a couple of people who follow a carnivore lifestyle for health/fat loss reasons. They only eat meat, eggs and animal fats. Nothing else at all.

It wouldn't be for me, but there you have it.

AND it still grates on me that meat eaters are meant to cater to them, but they never return the favour. Even a microwave chicken tikka would be OK. I'll even dish the bastard thing out onto the plate myself FFS.

Would you really rather eat a micowaved chicken tikka than homemade vegan food? I know yesterday’s sausages weren’t gourmet, but with more notice I usually make something fancy for dinner guests. I hope it’s usually better than a microwave ready meal offering!

Have you got figures to back that up?

There are ethical questions surrounding eating soy based foods too, since deforestation is occurring to allow for space to grow them.

Deforestation contributes to climate change.

I tried being vegan and was growing a lot of my own veg. I had to kill so many caterpillars and slugs by hand (well, foot) because I didn't want to use chemicals and the Eco friendly ones aren't always very effective.

Veganism was quite murdery, it turned out. I suppose I could have bought my fruit and veg, but then someone else would be doing the murders, wouldn't they?

Veganism isn’t perfect but Meat is a big offender on terms of carbon.
I like the simplicity of eating locally but it’s still not a great argument for eating beef for example if you want to consider the carbon and water impact.
www.wri.org/resources/data-visualizations/protein-scorecard

@amusedbush I’ve heard of that too, but I don’t know anyone in real life who has tried it. It must be bloody expensive if nothing else!

^
Atkins diet. Although when I did it, some vegies were important.

I don't think the subject of this thread is whether people should or should not be vegan. OP certainly doesn't come across as the 'smug and pious' variety (of which I have never met any, to be honest).

The question was whether the long-time vegan OP's longstanding friend was reasonable to expect to be told that her dinner was vegan rather than meat when she was there for a last minute dinner. Of course she wasn't reasonable. And if she was just making a point she was very rude in the face of hospitality imo.

That last post should have been to ambushedbush sorry.

She sounds like she should be eating a sausage full of anti-drama drugs, if such a thing exists. Perhaps cook one for her next time

i work with a couple of people who are vegan and they do the whole food preparation thing but then I meet others who don't like vegetables/chickpeas/lentils, have to have Soya/Oat/Almond milk (don't mind but the Almond milk uses huge amounts of water. Vegans going to MacDonald's, why?

@Inthepurplerain I do!

Here is a good article with a helpful graphic on the environmental impact: ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

And here is an article about 80% of soy is grown to feed farm animals:
globalforestatlas.yale.edu/amazon/land-use/soy

I wouldn’t be bothered at all, it’s good at the end of the day

@ Rhubarbpeony thanks for the info re soy and ttc I will look into it again.