Aibu to not understand why so many people have kids?

[Bigearringsbigsmile]

When they have no intention of putting their kids needs before their own?
Good, reliable contraception is freely available now so why put yourself through having children when you don't actually give a shit?
I see so many kids whose parents don't seem to even do the basics properly. I don't get why. Have an easier life- devote your time and money to yourself legitimately.

I'm sure if you saw me out sometimes you'd think I hated my kids. Other days you'd think I was a over pampering helicopter parent who was raising spoilt molly coddled prince/princesses. Because you only see a snap shot. Even if I knew you as a friend you might not get the full picture, I might only share their good bits, or use you to emotionally dump my parenting stresses on. You wouldn't really know how I feel about my children or parenthood, again just a snap shot. I don't think most people hate their kids or hate being a parent. But relationship breakdowns, poverty, work and life stresses, illness, mental health, all have massive effects. People don't walk around with a badge on saying "I never really got over my post natal depression" or "I hate being a single parent" or "I thought I'd be a perfect parent, instead I'm turning into my own parents who I hate" or "I'm too immature and selfish for this but I thought I'd change". You don't see that stuff.

What does it mean that people don‘t genuinely know how hard it will be to raise kids? Do they think the kids will raise themselves? That the kids will cook their own meal and feed themselves, will clean up their mess, go out playing alone, read themselves to sleep, put plasters on themselves, bathe and wash their own hair, give themselves good psychological advice, earn their own money and so on?

I think in my parents' case, they thought that the only way to bring up a child was the way they'd been brought up, by very poor widowed parents in both cases -- fed (minimally), clothed (minimally), educated (minimally), encouraged to be as little trouble as possible to parents who were primarily focused on getting by, and taken out of school and put to work asap with the idea that the eldest child (me) would be raising the younger ones and handing over a wage packet weekly from their mid-teens.

Job done, as far as they were concerned. They had absolutely no idea parenting involved more than this.

It's worth noting too that there are a million ways to be a "good" parent and they all usually have the same end result of producing a function adult of some degree (I say usual and some degree as there are some people like two of my DC who may never be independent adults). If there was any single definite way to do it "right" then it would be taught to everyone, you'd get leaflets during pregnancy about it, the HV would check you were doing it, and so on. But there isn't one definitive way and just because someone chooses to parent differently to someone else doesn't mean that one is right and the other is wrong.

I’d be a terrible parent. I’d resent my child/children so much. I’m very, very self-centred. My needs and wants come first without exception (I’m talking on a personal level, I don’t demand others feel the same).

I’m can quite clearly see how much you have to sacrifice to be a parent and I’m not willing to give up a thing!

I agree.

From people moaning because kids are not locked up in school 365 days a year, to parents who just don't want to do anything that could question their position as the "head of the house' (ffs ) to the cases of physical abuse.

it makes for very depressing read.
How many times do you read threads and think "but WHY did you have these poor kids in the first place".

But there isn't one definitive way and just because someone chooses to parent differently to someone else doesn't mean that one is right and the other is wrong.

as long as the goal is to have happy, safe, loved and successful children, then no, it doesn't matter. Sadly, happy kids is not everyone's priority. (I did not mean spoilt before someone pops up with that word).

I agree. Once you have a kid, you put them first no matter what

Easy to say when your only child is 4 months old. A bit less straightforward when they’re older, you have more than 1 child and 1 has additional needs so you can never quite be there enough for the one who doesn’t a lot of the time. For example.

It's worth noting too that there are a million ways to be a "good" parent and they all usually have the same end result of producing a function adult of some degree (I say usual and some degree as there are some people like two of my DC who may never be independent adults).
I agree. There's many ways to be a good parent.
But I think the danger on threads like these is that in the name of competing to be the least judgemental we end up where unless it's abusive then nobody should say anything negative.

Some people in life are selfish. I'm not sure why we should pretend that doesn't mean there are selfish parents and bend over backwards to find convoluted excuses for selfish behaviour in the name of 'don't be seen to be judging'.

A bit less straightforward when they’re older, you have more than 1 child and 1 has additional needs so you can never quite be there enough for the one who doesn’t a lot of the time.

it doesn't change anything. You still put the kids first. How you juggle the needs of one vs the need of the other is difficult, but however you manage, you still put THEM first.

I completely agree in the sense that if you don't like the trappings of parenthood, why go on to have 5, however what I have come to realise is these people don't KNOW they are shit at it. They often don't know any better, ie they were raised that way themselves. If you think it's normal to spend all your time and money on gambling and cigarettes so they go without, you shouldn't have kids. If you think the best life you can give them is palming them off elsewhere all the time, and when at home not interacting with them in any meaningful way, don't have them. But if that's all you know, you'll think your the best parent in the world.

GinDrinker - please tell me you have contacted social services regarding this family you know.

YANBU. MN has a lot of 'contraceptive failures' and people who procreate multiple times with people they know are total arseholes (and have usually already abandoned their first family).

Women are controlled in so many areas.

Women are told to get into relationships or they are not normal.
Women are told to have children or they are not normal.

When it is absolutely YOUR choice.

Question why society pushed women into these things in the past - to control them.

I know people on the bones of their arse who are brilliant parents and put the effort in and others with plenty of money who can't be bothered
Agree

In the areas that i have lived in, in Liverpool, it's a lack of anything else going on in the woman's life.

Jobs are scarce, career paths aren't an option. Schools don't install ambition or give full choices, globally speaking. The idea that women can be independent and happy alone, isn't sold to them. The women often think they've achieved something by managing to get their own place and have a baby. To prove they didn't make a mistake, they have more.

There's a lot of criminality, drug taking, fraud etc to make it palatable.

The men think that having a baby/child isn't going to interrupt their lives in any way and think leaving their kids behind them is a valid choice.

It's left to other female relatives to put a sticking plaster on any issues.

Then there's the people who just don't consider their children as proper people, in their own right. They are an extension of their wants and have to fit in and accept what is given. A million and one excuses are given why they are neglectful.

I get it op. I learned very early on that nothing prepares you for having children and it is incredibly hard, DS was unplanned and I thank God every day for this happy surprise, but I would never have another . He is my life and I would do anything for him.
His dad on the other hand will happily inseminate every woman in England but cannot fathom that parenthood is more than a weekend visit filled with fun and toys*

• if his social life permits

I agree. I wouldn’t have had any if I had know how hard it was and how much it shapes your life.

But I think the danger on threads like these is that in the name of competing to be the least judgemental we end up where unless it's abusive then nobody should say anything negative.

Couldn’t agree more with this. We all know what feckless parenting looks like, it’s simply a matter of common sense. MN seems to be obsessed with coming up with excuses reasons for neglectful parenting.

I think women are socially conditioned to want a partner (and to think a rubbish partner is better than no partner) and to have kids. It’s still seen as odd not to have them and most people don’t put any thought into whether they would actually like the reality of having them - it’s just seen as a given.

There’s also the problem in some areas of lack of other opportunities so having kids is something to do and something to “achieve”.

Lastly, as has been said already on this thread, there are lots of different opinions on what being a good parent is. Two of the happiest, most “successful” families I know (and the children have grown up now, so I know they’re not messed up adults) had parents who socialised a lot without their children, whereas some people see this as “neglect”.

Could you elaborate @Bigearringsbigsmile?

I'm assuming something occurred that made you question this in the first place. It's a very vague assumption that's impossible to judge without circumstance...

Where do you "see" these horrible parents who dont put their kids first? How much do you actually know about their life?
Im sure ive been seen and heard in situations where people must have thought 'dear lord, poor child'
You never have the whole story u less you live with that family.
You sound very judgemental.

Women are told to get into relationships because they are told that they are too weak to be by themselves.

Please, questiok everything that you have been told. These have been told to you to control you!

1. Women need to get into relationships.

Why? Question this. You are a human being who is equally as powerful as anyone else. It is fully your choice if you want to be on your own , or if you want to be with some one else.

2. Women need to have children. This was used to control women, so they could not do much else with their lives. It is a very, very serious thing to have a child. It is a very serious physical, mental and emotional thing to have a child. You do not have to have a child. Please question this. Love yourself. Trust what you want.

Instead of caving to what society tells you to do, listen to yourself. This is your one precious life. What do YOU want?

I agree that society kind of pushes women into the husband and kids paradigm and many would probably be happier if given the chance to think whether this is what they actually want. A lot of people dont seem to see DC as an active choice but just something that's expected or something that happens. We need to teach girls to think what their own dreams and goals are. Not saying some women don't genuinely want DC and everything that comes with that but not the case for woman who has them I reckon.

*every woman

@dayslikethese1 yes we absolutey need to encourage young women to think for themselves.

Many, many things have been done in the past to control and abuse women.

Telling them that they MUST have children was a form of control.

There is no DUTY to have children for the sake of humankind. There are loads of people on the planet.

It is a perfectly natural life choice not to have children.

I keep questioning why women were told for so long that we had to have a child. Why do we listen to some one else about what to do with our own bodies.

It is up to us individually.