Aibu to not understand why so many people have kids?

[Bigearringsbigsmile]

When they have no intention of putting their kids needs before their own?
Good, reliable contraception is freely available now so why put yourself through having children when you don't actually give a shit?
I see so many kids whose parents don't seem to even do the basics properly. I don't get why. Have an easier life- devote your time and money to yourself legitimately.

Parents of course, not patents.

Someone once said on the "Why people don't have children" thread that it's interesting to see that more often than not there is actually much more thought put into why not having children by childfree than into why have them by future parents.

Contraception has a 65% failure rate on Mumsnet so I wouldn’t try and use that as an feasible alternative!
At least 65%...

What do you mean by the basics?

And where do you see so many of those people?
My experience is that almost all parents do cover the basics very well and have a decent balance between everyone's needs.

And where do you see so many of those people?

on the school run, for me. Not that there's loads of parents like this, i think the vast majority are trying their best. There are 1 or 2 that ive seen where ive really felt for their children.

Then you have the ones who are obviously not very good parents but are utterly convinced that they are in fact excellent parents.

Dps ex is like that. She will tell anyone who will listen what a natural mother she is, born for it, bla bla. She's quite the opposite!

I agree with @Hoik and @Camomila. I certainly don't invariably put my child first he's part of a family, and needs to recognise that his needs are taken into consideration along with his parents' jobs, social lives etc and I don't think I would be doing him any favours if I did.

Also, people's idea about what constitutes 'the basics' of good parenting vary widely, and can depend on their own parenting, personalities, education, life experience, exposure to different types of parenting, ability to push for a diagnosis/ assistance for a child with additional needs etc etc. And yes, can also depend on their social class and income eg there are parents who believe they would be doing little Oscar a disservice by sending him to a state school, or not making them stick at tennis so they can 'make nice friends'.

My parents parented us the way they'd been parented themselves -- the basics of food, shelter and clothes, but literally nothing else. They were too concerned with getting by (we were very poor) to consider that children might need more than this, like individual attention, help with homework etc.

There is a very broad spectrum of parenting. Even a few posts in some have commented about always putting the kids first and others about putting their own needs before the kids sometimes.

Some people will argue that spending time with your kids is what matters eg. playing at home in the garden, park etc. Others will ferry their kids from activities to broaden their horizons and give them opportunities but this does not actually involve spending 'quality' time.

The more children you have the more washing cooking, laundry, admin you have to do. That can sometimes get in the way of doing the fun stuff eg baking, painting etc. I know this is true for me, I wouldn't take the kids to soft play on a Sunday morning before my house has been cleaned so I will often hold off on doing fun things until I have done the basic chores. I think it's all relative and the majority of parents I know are just trying to do their best. We all have good and bad days.

I'm not sure I agree with you especially, but it drives me batty when people put themselves through the ringer of having four kids and you can't see any reason why. E.g. don't seem to enjoy it, can't seem to afford it, can be mean to their existing children, need a bigger house/vehicle).

I can understand accepting having two as something you think of as better for the children overall, but surely once you get to three, you realise whether or not more is for you?

(I say this as a fourth child of a highly un-motherly mother)

Interesting thread, meant to be about parenting but really about bad mothers. There is lots of criticism of women who get irresponsibly pregnant here, young girls etc. Perhaps these mothers might find it easier to cope if the men in their life pulled their weight? No woman conceives immaculately and yet many have to bring up a child on their own.

Society completely condones men abandoning their children or paying pitiful maintenance and yet if a woman leaves the children with their father as RP, she is condemned in the strongest possible terms.

If someone is parenting badly (for whatever reason) they need support and/or teaching or help with resources. We also need to change as a society to encourage men to play an equal part.

Children learn by example and we have generations of men brought up by their mothers with no or little practical or emotional or financial support. It’s not surprising that these men often follow in the footsteps of their missing or useless fathers.

And before someone says that I hate all men. I don’t. I have a fantastic husband. But I came from a family where my birth father was an absolute shit and my stepfather showed me how a father was supposed to behave. I wouldn’t have known otherwise and that makes you very vulnerable.

@MaybeNew

I do mostly agree with you, though in my case, my experience is very much about having a less than ideal mum.

She had two kids with her first husband (who was an abusive arsehole - obviously not her fault). Then she had two more with my dad.

He would do anything for us, and made a real effort to parent us, especially noticeable when we were teens, and he'd make an effort to listen to crappy teen music, sit with us to watch things we had no interest in etc.

My mum had four kids and would have had more if she hadn't been medically advised against it. I can only assume because my dad wanted us, because although she does everything practically, she just isn't interested in other human beings full stop. She was just an authoritarian nightmare with us as kids, and completely self-involved as an adult.

YANBU.
Someone I know is a terrible mother, can’t even be bothered to get out of bed and do the school run makes their 11 year old get up in the morning by screaming at them and makes them get their 6 year old ready and take them to school. Then when the 11 year old gets back from school they have to do all the washing up the mums left from sitting on her backside whilst they’re at school all day, makes the 11 year old cook for them (pot noodle I kid you not), makes the 11 year old bath Their younger sibling, they have a older sibling who moved out as soon as they could and the mother constantly pesters that child to send them money as they’ve spent all their money on weed and tobacco. Etc. And the state of the house.. it’s not even fit for a dog to live in let alone children.
Its fucking awful. The mum just sits in bed all day and night and does nothing. (No she’s not disabled either.) I don’t know why people have kids when they’re so bone idle and lazy!

Great another parent judging thread!

There are so many different aspects to parenting, might it just be we arent all great in all areas? Parents are allowed off days.
Childrens needs should come before their parents, but that is a very black and white way of looking at things. If a child is sick for example you may say a parent should be at home with them- true in theory but in practice people have to work etc.

It's a bit of a facetious question OP. Contraception obviously isnt actually available freely globally at all, nor do certain religions or societies approve of it, or of termination even if it is notionally available . There are also s great deal of women living under the veil of misogyny who's life plan and marital expectation revolves in most cases ultimately around having kids- whether we like the truth of that or not.

That aside nobody knows whether they'll be any good as a parent beforehand do they. I'm sure a lot of us can say our parents weren't even with good intentions.

Post natal depression, mental health, stress at home, work situations, marriage breakdown, money, illness additional needs- all that and more affects what kind of parent a person is able to be, and all can happen to anyone regardless of their situation when they initially decided to have DC. It can also change over time.

Totally agree. I was plunged into depression when DS was born, it was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. So I won't be having any more.

My friend has two, is at the end of her tether, and is on various medications to help her cope. She's furious with her husband because he won't try for a third.

She's a brilliant mum and definitely puts the kids first but holy shit why do women so desperately try to mount up their own responsibilities until breaking point.

They're often the ones with dogs too!

I agree with you OP. BIL has a child from a previous marriage but has had nothing to do with her. Only recently has he started to have contact. His wife has just started working (they have three kids together) but their joint income means the amount he pays in child maintenance goes up. MIL says she shouldn't work so they don't end up paying more child maintenance which I think is shocking. Poor child didn't ask to be born into this world but I think as a parent you have an obligation to look after YOUR child, even if the relationship breaks down. If you aren't committed you should have bloody well used contraception.

I do think it's weird when you see people having lots of children when all empirical evidence seems to point to them disliking the whole business.

I think it's just the default maybe? And I wouldn't underestimate the biological drive. There are a lot of very good reasons why I shouldn't have a second child (and I won't be) but I do have quite a primal urge to do it anyway.

His wife has just started working (they have three kids together) but their joint income means the amount he pays in child maintenance goes up

are they in the UK? If they are that isn't true.

IMO, we have moved to an age of helicopter parents, overly protective, smothering, even.
That's why I'm curious about what the OP considers basics.

What does it mean that people don‘t genuinely know how hard it will be to raise kids? Do they think the kids will raise themselves? That the kids will cook their own meal and feed themselves, will clean up their mess, go out playing alone, read themselves to sleep, put plasters on themselves, bathe and wash their own hair, give themselves good psychological advice, earn their own money and so on? You have to be pretty dumb to think that having kids will be a walk in the park and every day will be smooth sailing.

@kalifa

oh come on, you know full well thats not what it means.

Obv people know they will have to do all the practical things but i dont think most people realise how relentless it is. Like how you barely get a minute to yourself, just how much your life will change. How tired you will be!

Lots of things to underestimate.

Babytigerrr
So they didn’t know how relentless it would be? Really? What else would it be if not relentless? Raising kids for at least two decades till they become fully independent and move out is relentless and non-stop. I think most people see the signs and hear the moans and complaints but choose to ignore it.

@kalifa well if you've never done something how would you know whether it was going to be relentless or not? maybe you have a crystal ball but most people don't know the full ins and outs of anything, not just parenting, until they have done it for themselves.

Not knowing parenting is going to be relentless doesn't make you "pretty dumb" as you so eloquently put it.

It depends whether you’re drawing up experience of a shit Mother I.e your own Mother, another relation, close friend etc or whether you’re purely judging strangers from a snapshot. Many good parents could briefly look shit on a bad day.

I know of a family (with really lovely) 4 kids cramped into a tiny 2 bed flat.

The kids are always in ankle swingers and the 6 year old often says that her family is poor. She wanted to go cheerleading in the village for £2 a week but she said that her mum says they’re too poor.

In the playground the mum asked another mum if she still had any puppies going. £600 for a puppy but not enough room to swing a cat or pay £2 a week for a club.

Why the hell did the parents decide to have 4 kids?!

There’s loads of parents out there who just make sure the kids are warm, feed and wearing nice clothes. I don’t understand why people have kids when they can’t be bothered to bring them up.