Aibu to not understand why so many people have kids?

[Bigearringsbigsmile]

When they have no intention of putting their kids needs before their own?
Good, reliable contraception is freely available now so why put yourself through having children when you don't actually give a shit?
I see so many kids whose parents don't seem to even do the basics properly. I don't get why. Have an easier life- devote your time and money to yourself legitimately.

4 billion owed in unpaid child support, it’s neglect and our government does nothing about it.

Some people have an objectively poor standard of parenting and can't see it

That is harsh. I think all parents genuinely try to improve on the poor parenting they received but then fail to see where they may be shoring up new problems they didn’t anticipate. For example all I remember from my early childhood (I have memories from as early as 2) is being ignored and left on the floor. In later childhood I could go months without being hugged or touched by my family to the point where I now feel uncomfortable even shaking hands. Every question I asked would be ignored. Every request I made was deliberately not fulfilled (I once spent a whole year in horrifically ripped up shoes because Dad thought I was being rude to ask for new ones. In that time my sister and brother probably received 2-3 pairs each). I am trying not to repeat the same mistakes with my DC and not cause new problems

I don't get it.

Especially on here when women moan and wail about hard it is to raise kids and they have 3,4+ kids.

Ffs you know how hard it was when you hard the first, you made a choice to have so many and then complain it's hard.

You don't have a clue what it's like to have children, and you don't have a clue what's going on with someone else's family. Stop wasting your time judging other people and focus on getting on with your own life.

Because humans are animals, and animals have a drive to procreate. And because humans are fallible and don't always make the best decisions, especially when they themselves have had poor parental models. Pretty obvious really.

I think it's very narrow minded of you to think that someone just pops a kid and then doesn't give a shot about it.

There will be numerous factors involved, including the way they were brought up themselves, the partners they are predisposed to choose, lack of education growing up, being neglected themselves.

This is a horrible thread.
Why are you so judgy.
I suppose it's all very elitist round your way.

I've come across this kind of 'sterilise the poor' sentiment before and it always disgusts me. Ditto 'Only the worthy should be allowed to procreate.' Appalling.

I often see it in my line of work - young girls getting pregnant because they are uneducated and desperate for a baby to love. They don’t understand or comprehend the enormity of having a child and so inevitably they are unable to parent effectively. This child grows up and repeats the same mistake - trying to perhaps build a family unit they never had themselves.

Like all things, if we invested in proper, preventative mental well-being services from babies upwards we would have a lot more people who were able to make better decisions for themselves and their lives.

A lot of people I know and have worked with have kids to 'fill a hole' they have in themselves for love not realising nothing external can fix that.

With all due respect @firsttimemum30 you've been a mother for just 4 months!!!Neither you nor anyone else (mother or not) can judge why another woman should or should not have kids.

I've been a mother longer than I haven't been and had multiple kids. It is not reasonable nor right that a woman's life is subservient to the life of her offspring. Sure when they're very small. But women aren't servants and this attitude freaks me the fuck out and depresses me.

Wow! Some major assumptions on here! ' sterilise the poor??'

Did I at any point mention income?
I know people on the bones of their arse who are brilliant parents and put the effort in and others with plenty of money who can't be bothered.
I think that assumption say more about you than me!

I'm not saying they should be servants either, I do manage to get out the house and try and fit my child around my life as much as possible but I have had to sacrifice my needs at times for my babies'. Ie. Can't just jump in the shower when I want, if baby is cluster feeding need to limit my activities for a week so I don't miss a feed etc. I'm aware I haven't hit the toddler stage yet but having 3 siblings, 2 of whom have several kids and I have always been involved in their lives, looking after 3 or 4 of them by myself for weekends etc I have experienced the difficulties. Maybe I worded it incorrectly. And I certainly don't come from a well off background so don't agree with the comments against the poor. My childhood was good, I'm lucky. My mum parents didn't go out on their own apart from for an anniversary etc, they sacrificed a lot which gave us good memories of our upbringing. They are not martyrs though.

And my comment about some people should not have kids, was aimed at the kind of parents who bring up children who later end up with psychological issues and difficulties with relationships. Due to neglect, abuse, which could be just ignoring them frequently or constantly criticising, being nasty etc. Or people acting like they don't have kids, certain people should think about it more.

You have no idea whether people are good parents or not. Some are practically mother of the year when there is an audience but dreadful otherwise. Some seem to not be bothered but are very encouraging and there when it counts. Parents who encourage independence can be accused of not caring etc. Unless you live with someone 24/7 you haven't a clue.

When they have no intention of putting their kids needs before their own?
Depends what you mean. I am a good mother but sometimes my needs come first especially if it’s my child’s wants vs my needs.
E.g. I go out to work. I go out without DD sometimes.
I make sure DD is fed well, played with, take an interest in her education, look after her health, keep her warm and clothed but I look after me too and that’s ok.

YABU because

Always and every time putting your kids' needs before your own is not IMHO the right thing, the needs of everyone in the family should be balanced, not just mum playing the selfless martyr every time

People will have different ideas about what it means to 'do the basics properly'

I think there are very few people who genuinely don't give a shit, there are people whose lives are chaotic and challenging and try to do their best in difficult circumstances

I sometimes think the same, obviously some situations are complex but the truth is some people don't think about the children first.

But on here you'll have 10 pages of people telling you YABU because there's always a reason that means someone can't help having multiple kids and complaining they can't afford the basics whilst going our every Saturday night drinking whilst their mum has the grandkids (see also "but what if that one night out where a good £50-100 goes on alcohol is the only child free time for the parents, you're basically saying poor people should never have children" aka 'offline I would totally agree that spending money on nights out when you're saying you can't afford new shoes for the kids is wrong, but online I can pretend to be totally cool and never think anything negative about anyone')... Unless it's a thread about the Radford family, in which case suddenly people are very quick to decide they don't put their children first and it's awful.

some people are crap parents, that much is true.

I think half the problem is that nobody really knows what being a parent is like until you are one.

I think if people knew the reality of having kids, a lot more people wouldn't have them.

I think it is easy to critisise other peoples choices when there are so many reasons why people procreate! A biological need ,a slip up in the pill, a one night stand and so on .Most(not all) people will find being a parent when they have good family ties /happy childhoods to look back on and a comfortable life (good job ,happy marriage and so on) a lot easier than a single mum on benefits ,trying to make ends meet ,and maybe mistaking the bloke she met at the pub as being good partner material! Being judgy is not helpful and many people who are not this position feel able to judge anothers life choices!

And my comment about some people should not have kids, was aimed at the kind of parents who bring up children who later end up with psychological issues and difficulties with relationships.

Many psychological issues and difficulties with relationships are not related to parenting, even people with "good" parents can have problems with their mental health and issues with their relationships. Many such parents are on here and I can guarantee every single one of them will at some point examined every single choice they ever made for their child to see if they are to blame, it's a guilt that never quite goes away even when there is absolutely no blame to be apportioned.

I'd also like to say that regular nights out don't make someone a bad parent. I'm going out tomorrow night, the children will be with DH and me having a meal and some drinks with my friends is not going to make them feel any less loved or cared for.

Putting your children first is making sure they are fed, clothed, cared for, loved, and educated. There will be limitations on what you can do, one of the hardest adjustments I found was the lack of being able to get up and simply go somewhere like I could pre-children, but equally it does not mean entirely suspending your own life for several years. There is a balance to be had. I am a mother but I am not only a mother, it is not everything that I am, I am also still Hoik.

I get it OP. I've have a friend who spends almost no time at all actually with her toddler. She works such long hours mon-fri that she does not see him at all, then chooses to spend almost all day every Saturday on a hobby, leaving him with his dad, usually socialise with her friends without him on a Sunday. She also regularly books weekends away and leaves him at grandparents. Her choice but i really don't see how she thought she had room in her life for a child.

You do look at some parents and think people like you shouldn’t be allowed children. Some truly awful parents exists and in this country condoms, the pill are readily available and abortion is legal so they didn’t have to have a child to be a cunt to it.

Contraception has a 65% failure rate on Mumsnet so I wouldn’t try and use that as an feasible alternative!

I think the bulk of people that have children would have an easier, happier life if they hadn’t had those children. Especially the Dads. There isn’t a day that goes by that there isn’t a post (or several) about a father that has checked out of parenting and doesn’t contribute much to family life.

There are enough people in the world. We don’t need anymore. Go and live your best childfree life I say!

I'd also like to say that regular nights out don't make someone a bad parent. I'm going out tomorrow night, the children will be with DH and me having a meal and some drinks with my friends is not going to make them feel any less loved or cared for
Of course regular time as a couple doesn't make someone a bad parent. That's important just like it's important to maintain friendships too.

But someone complaining money is tight, that their kids can't have new shoes/can't do club they want to that's £5 a week etc who goes out and pisses £50-100 up the wall in alcohol for the weekly night out is making questionable parenting decisions.

I know what you mean op.
There really are some awful patents out there. Nothing to do with income but everything to do with attitude.