What is fair financially?

[AmIbeingtoomean]

NC as going to give lots of detail. Long sorry.

My boyfriend and I have been discussing moving in together but had a chat yesterday where he thinks I am asking too much. I have been in a cocklodger situation previously so worried I am being too harsh. Neither of us have children.

My situation:
I own a nice 3 bed house in a less nice area of an expensive (not London) city. My income is £2000 salary per month shortly rising to £2,600 following promotion. I have always had lodgers and my current one pays £400 a month all inclusive - slightly below market rent. My mortgage is £600 a month and all my household bills (including mortgage, excluding car and groceries) comes to £950 a month.

BF has a salary of £1,800 per month shortly rising to £1,900. He pays rent of £625 and his household bills total £850 each month. He has some money saved in a help to buy ISA and could right now buy a tiny flat in a similar area to me.

He doesn't want to move in while I have a lodger so will wait until current one (a mate with financial troubles) can afford to move out. If he wasn't moving in, I would get another lodger and charge £450 a month. We will live in my house alone and once we know living together works, buy something together (tenants in common to protect my much higher equity).

I want him to pay £400 a month contribution essentially to replace the lost lodger income. This will cover all bills and then we will split food etc ad hoc (me probably paying more as I earn more). He saves an extra £450 a month compared to now which he can put toward his help to buy.

He feels it is unfair to ask him to pay toward my mortgage and should only pay half of the monthly utility bills (about £175) plus spilt food bills and housework etc. When we buy together, then he would contribute toward the mortgage. He doesn't want to feel like I am profiting off him or treating him like a lodger. Especially as I don't 'need' the money with my payrise and earn more than him.

YANBU - He should pay £400
YABU - he should pay less

Myself and my partner were in a similar situation when we moved in together 2 years ago - I owned a 2 bed flat and he rented. I didn’t have a lodger and could afford to pay mortgage + bills on my own. I earn more than him, but when we moved in together we agreed that I would continue to pay the mortgage so that all equity in the flat was mine, whilst my partner paid the household bills (i.e gas, electric, water, maintenance fees to management company etc.). We then paid for groceries on alternate weeks.

I don’t think asking him for £400 a month is unreasonable, he’s still saving money compared with what he’s paying now and you’re losing money that you would have otherwise been getting as he is unwilling to live with a lodger.

Don’t move in together and wait until he has enough money saved for you to sell up and you both buy a joint property.

You’re ‘trying before you buy’ in all senses with him right now.

It can’t be very nice for him to feel that he’s romantically involved with you and would be living in your home whilst you keep tabs on how compatible he is with you.

I suspect he’ll pull out of wanting to live with you at all.

If it's the idea of the mortgage that bothers him, charge him £400 for utilities...

That's why it's so ridiculous, it doesn't matter what the money is for in the end, it's a very reasonable amount to contribute.

Cocklodger - The Sequel Opening Soon.

Sorry, OP

God OP with every update he's looking like more and more of a cocklodger.

You only earn £200 a month more at the moment. Don't put any more into a shared property than he is. It's not like you're substantially better off than him.

Such a weird attitude that he doesn't mind a landlord profiting off him paying rent, but seems to have an issue with you possibly making a tiny bit of margin on him moving into the home that you will share, and possibly use the equity to buy somewhere together anyway.

I’d take the lodger out of the equation. Back to basics. You each earn a similar amount so mortgage and bills should be split 50/50. If he doesn’t like that he can find someone else.

I can see both sides.Since hes sharing your room maybe 300 a month and you still keep your spare bedroom.

@Dustarr73 that only works if OP still has a lodger which he doesn't want

@SimonJT will you be better or worse off when he moves in and pays bills only. Will he be moving any DC in alongside your son? Have the DC made any difference to the conversation?

Counter argument is that you are benefiting from living with someone you care about etc as opposed to a random lodger. You will have the benefit of a spare room again etc.

Yes this is his argument. That I will be benefitting from having a partner there opposed to a lodger (even if current lodger is my mate). And we will be a partnership e.g. sharing housework etc instead of me providing a 'service' (housing) for a fee.

Wow he's a CF isn't he?

Think you need to stop fishing in the cocklodger swamp OP. Find yourself an equal.

So, he has said that he doesn't think it fair that he is being asked to pay toward your mortgage, amongst the bills.

Ask him plainly why he feels it is fair that he lives rent free, that he benefits from you paying for your mortgage? Who is supposed to pay for his housing costs?

Tell him that if he can't get his head round the reality of the situation - no adult gets to live rent free if there is rent/mortgage to be paid - you'll get another lodger and he can stay in his little flat!

I have never understood anyone, man or woman, who thinks that a partner paying rent or mortgage doesn't deserve or need to get any input from them. All that "It's your house, what does s/he get for paying off your mortgage?" waffle unfuriates me... there has to be a compromise that involves some payment being made, rights protected and a relationship kept intact with no resentment!

If you can't work it out before moving in then your relationship is doomed anyway!

£400 is very reasonable. It isn't the mortgage he's contributing towards per se, what about house upkeep and maintenance, which I am sure, as the owner, he will expect you to foot the bill for.
He pays it, you keep a lodger, or he doesn't move in.

You sure do know how to pick them, OP! Of course his offer is taking the piss. You are not in a place to even discuss living with a boyfriend. You want to know why? Because you're doubting yourself and wondering if you are being unfair in response to a total pisstaking offer and his demands as to what you do with your home (he doesn't want you to take a lodger, but you two live alone together, well, it's not his house to make demands on). He's a cocklodger's dream and you're a mark.

Tell him right now living together is off the table. You're not ready and he needs to carry on buying himself his flat IF and only IF you don't want to lose more money on effectively paying/losing money to have A Man in your house, because that's exactly what his moving in means. You, paying to have him as a boyfriend.

He's not lovely, and he knows what he is doing. My child has ASD, yes, he has issues with grey areas, but he's far from stupid.

You've got yourself another cocklodger here, congratulations!

You need to do a lot of work on your boundaries before you even think for a nanosecond of having another live-in relationship.

Just to play the other direction in similar situation, I paid £450 to then BF eleven years ago, he got a contribution (MUCH higher earner) to mortgage and running costs, I got to live in a lovely flat at about half the rate I'd been on - I saved all the difference and more besides because it was a much nicer home to stay in and mooch about in. He is benefitting massively from your financial stability (As was I). I would have been ashamed to pay less, I never wanted to freeload.

@Seacharts yes I can see this from an emotional standpoint. I think I am bring practical whereas he is reacting more emotionally. He did say I had all the power and felt like I was very keen on being independent and maintaining control over my life as opposed to being a partnership.

@Supersimkin2 Don't apologise! That made me laugh.

see a solicitor who specialises in family law.

If he is 'paying towards the mortggage' then it could ultimately be seen as him having a beneficial interest in your house. When it comes to a split that might have fairly serious consequences. Get proper advice.

450pm with a lodger agreement so no claim on the property for 'paying the mortgage'.

If he wants to replace the lodger, he can replace the rent the lodger would pay, and in return he gets a room of ones own to use as he likes.

If he doesn't want this he can carry on paying twice as much rent for his current place and you can carry on having a lodger.

Please do not accept anything less then this.

I think his ASC is significant. I don't necessarily think he's 'grooming' you or similar. He's simply stuck in the idea that he shouldn't need to pay a mortgage for a house he doesn't own, that it's your responsibility to do that.

Obviously it's not that straightforward and he doesn't have a right to live rent free. I think you need to find a different way of explaining to him why his suggestion overly benefits him to your detriment. Tap into his logic. Good luck.

@AmIbeingtoomean No children on his side, he does have a goldfish! Council tax will go up a bit, utilities I imagine will change very little, water may go up a bit and food will go up a bit. It will make very little financial difference to me.

What I think is making this is a bit more tricky is whether you are looking at the relationship with your emotional commitments to each other and potentially a future together. At the moment I wonder if approaching this big step as couple is being framed by a landlord-tenant situation.
I totally understand that at this point in time, you are protecting yourself in the worst case scenario that things don't work out. However, moving in together when you're in a relationship is the building blocks of your future, and most couples see this time as a test on the next steps before bigger commitments.
Ask yourselves, are you moving in together because you want to move the relationship forward for a future, or is this just a nice financial arrangement that is convenient for the two of you right now?

Just to be clear - I don't think you are being unreasonable in what you are asking of him, so don't back down.

I wonder if he feels a bit hurt that you are "protecting" yourself from him and are pre-empting a future failure of the relationship. Perhaps you need to show that this arrangement is only for this phase of your relationship and if you find it works out and you end up committed and perhaps buying a family home together, then down the line he will still benefit from the payments he is putting towards your property, even though it is formally seen as rent right now. This is assuming that in 30 years time if you are together and married, perhaps with a family, that you would see all of your investments as joint between the two of you.
He can't expect to live completely rent free and have you subsidise his living while he hopefully saves a deposit for a property. If you do break up then that leaves him with a nice pot of money and you with nothing to show except the memories of your good will to him.
If you are both still coming back to the point of "but if this comes to an end, what will we both have?" then perhaps moving in together isn't right for you.
If you can say "this is our arrangement until this happens..." then you have the optimism to see the relationship growing into what sounds like a very financially comfortable future.

He did say I had all the power and felt like I was very keen on being independent and maintaining control over my life as opposed to being a partnership.

A partnership is about being equal. If he wanted a partnership he'd be paying what was fair.

You can maintain your independence and be in a partnership if your partner isn't a freeloader.

So he’ll pay towards a landlords mortgage but not yours, even if it’s less than he currently pays ? Utter claptrap. What a stinking attitude.

I’d not have him move into my house with that attitude, particularly if what you’re asking is below market rate and enables him to save more cash. That’s already doing him a favour.

Why not rent somewhere together and rent yours out then he can pay his half ? See how he likes that.

ALL you need to say is that you are not ready for a live in relationship so the discussion is off the table until you are. You don't owe this man justifications. He needs firm boundaries, my son could try to badger and argue the rain out of wetting him, so it has to be NO, this is not negotiable. 'But it's not fair!' 'That's correct. It is often in life when things are not fair. My answer is still NO.'

Because right now, your boundaries are still weak as you're doubting yourself.

You may well be right about my boundaries @datasgingercatspot

I am financially stable. Good job, good health, lovely family and friends. I have been lucky in my life and give a lot back e.g. volunteering, helping out friends and family. I feel because I have been fortunate, I need to help people out and have in the past been taken the piss out of. I am not brilliant at saying 'no' but have been getting better as I get older (just turned 30).