To think positive birth movement is a cult?

[auslass]

Recently I went along to a positive birth movement talk (mostly because they had free cake - don't get between a pregnant lady and carbs), and honestly I found the whole thing a bit cultish.

The women they had talking were all " no pain relief, I wanted to feel everything" heroes. And they had a midwife up talking about why everyone should be considering homebirths, and why we should all think about not having any drugs at all.

Is it just me or does just seem like another way of layering pressure on women? I want my pain relief and am sure of that, but when I brought up pain relief's place in PBM the midwife instantly explained all that could go wrong with pain relief. I get there a risks; but there are risks with no intervention births too right?

AIBU? Is it just me who thinks these groups have a responsibility to educate on all the options? Especially if they have midwives present?

* Outdated ideas that the human pelvis is too narrow for human babies in order to enable bipedalism (the "obstetric dilemma") are just that, outdated. More recent research has suggested that there's actually a large variation in birth canal size in humans, so many women are able to birth large babies with no issue*

Actually most women have pelvises designed to deliver smaller babies safely. We were never biologically designed to birth 10, 11 pounders naturally - big babies often come about due to high Maternal carb / sugar diets and other unhealthy behaviours.

For example a healthy baby in Japan (which incidentally has the highest longevity) is considered to be between 5 and 8 pounds regardless of the parents’ races.

Whatever works for you. That's it.

I had a natural birth, squatted and all. No drugs or anything. My husband was fantastic, crap afterwards....

Did have to go into hospital, gave birth at 36 weeks. (not in UK).

Don't let anyone tell you what your body is telling you....

@SirChing you've quoted me twice saying "many", which doesn't mean "all". Clearly in your case a cesarean was the only way forward.

Positive birth is not "unmedicated vaginal birth or die". It's about being informed and making your own choices based on the benefits and risks of your particular situation.

@AlmostAlwyn Sorry! I am disabled and get cognitive difficulties and memory loss (basically it makes me dense and I have brain farts ). Didn't mean to post twice. I actually forgot I had posted the first post (Bloody hell, I need goldfish to memory train me as their 4 seconds is great compared to me ). Really sorry anyway.

Birth is so highly personal that I feel like any conversation about this has the potential to become very judgemental, very quickly. I was lucky to have two straight forward home births with little intervention. I recognize that it was solely luck that this happened. However, I did find the PBM empowering and useful to me in terms of normalizing birth and helping me to trust my body.

Good grief, it's a day out of your life. The hard bit starts afterwards. Sorry, but groups like this really need to get over themselves. Good that there was cake though.

@SirChing no need to apologise

@Barbie222 thing is, if things don't go to plan it can be more than just "a day out of your life". How many women do you read about who have PTSD or PPD from events surrounding their birth?

Preparing for all that might be involved in your birth, and learning how to navigate the choices that might be presented can only be beneficial.

I think it's like anything else, it depends entirely on how it's presented.

I think almost all birth 'movements' can take things too far. Doctors can overmedicate and refuse to listen to what women actually need. Natural birth pushers can ignore the fact that sometimes medical intervention is needed.

What you need is common sense really.

@Barbie222 I’m still badly effected from a negative birth experience nearly a decade ago, my baby was perfectly healthy but it triggered PTSD and long-term mental health problems. Childbirth is an experience that can shape you as a person and influence every aspect of your life from that day onwards. My relationship suffered, my parenting to my new baby suffered, my confidence and social life, work life and so on. It can have such a massive impact and unfortunately this isn’t uncommon. Anything that aims to help women have a positive experience is a good thing in my opinion.

I think a positive birth comes from knowledge and a good team around you.

I planned a hypnobirthing/water birth. I had a 72 hour epidural filled EMCS. But I still to this day say I had a wonderful positive birth because I felt in control and aware of what was happening and the choices I could make

30 years ago antenatal classes were 'blaming' women for not having 'perfect' analgesia free births. I am so depressed to hear that no progress has been made.i am and was a bit of a baby wearing extended breast feeding type but have enough self knowledge to know that one's birth experience cannot be affected by will power alone and that almost all of what happens is down to luck .how depressing!

I haven't attended a class, but the positive birth book by Milli Hill talks about all kinds of births, including sections - it's more about feeling in control and understanding your options. I got a lot out of it - I just had gas and air which was what I wanted, I was scared of needing an epidural, but that doesn't mean to say everyone's would be like that. It's such an emotive topic though especially given the amount of trauma that many women experience during childbirth. It's not right to push drug free births as the number one option for everyone (especially as some have no other option anyway) but it's a helpful concept for some. I'm sure classes can be overly pushy.

I agree, OP

I think the ideas behind the positive birth movement are great, but the interpretation and execution of these ideas onto vulnerable mothers can be very wrong in some cases.

I hate the way some women put other women down for things out of their control, like an emergency section. I hate how some women put pressure onto women to go it without pain relief, or to give birth in X way because it's the "best" way. I hate how some women force breastfeeding onto women like it's the only way, at the expense of the mother's mental and physical wellbeing. I hate how some women berate other women for not following the baby-wearing, baby-led, wooden sustainable toy way of parenting.

I just wish we'd all say, "hey, this is an option but if you'd prefer to do a, b, c or d, that's great, too. It's your choice and we'll support you regardless". Being pregnant, giving birth and being a mum is tough. We do not need stupid pressures like these making us feel worse.

I've had all the babies I'm having but I genuinely didn't know you could decline them checking how dilated you are. I found that whole part very distressing especially when a man walked in didn't even say who he was checked and then angrily said "she has ages speed it up a bit". I was so shocked and upset. Turns out he was the Dr but could have been anyone for all I knew. I'm very shy and got told off for covering my legs during labour with all three of mine.

@Ivebeentohellanditscalledikea See I think it’s so sad that so many women are made to feel that way, your body belongs to YOU, when else are we told we can’t say no to somebody putting fingers in our vagina? You have the same human rights to your own body during childbirth and women need to know this

Very interesting article from AIMS about vaginal examinations. I had one in my first labour on arrival to hospital (only one as my son was born 90 minutes later), and I too didn't consider the possibility that I could refuse! It was particularly painful - though I'm not sure if that's because of the examination or having a contraction lying on my back, or a combination...

I'm pregnant again now so will either be requesting a different position or refusing as it's really not a good indicator of progress at all.

www.aims.org.uk/information/item/vaginal-examinations-in-labour

@AlmostAlwyn during my first labour, I had multiple vaginal examination carried out without my consent - I was actively screaming at the midwife to stop at several points during, and she continued anyway. That’s one of many reasons I found my first birth so hideous.
After that experience, I was adamant that no one would be poking around in there again. Flat out, 100% NO.
I went on to have two more babies without a single person putting their hands inside me. I made it abundantly clear, that unless there was a medical emergency, no one (except DH) was to touch me, or my baby during the birth. My midwives second and third time around were fantastic and respected my wishes entirely.
The cervix is not a crystal ball - especially for subsequent births. Cervical dilation isn’t a reliable indicator of progression of labour at all. It’s just painful and outdated.

That’s not my experience of the PBM sessions I went to. They were all about empowering women

I had an extremely positive elective C section birth experience.

It’s surely whatever works for you. I hate it when people push either way.

I have had no pain relief but gas and air in any of my labours - not always by choice. My third labour was horrific and I begged for an epidural, but despite being exceptionally painful it was only two hours long and my beautiful son was sucking his thumb when he was born - his elbow did some serious damage!

I think if you can learn strategies to help you cope with labour and relax then that’s a good thing and hopefully you’ll have the birth you want.

I went to NCT and a few other things like that. To be fair they offered some balanced views on drugs and c sections etc - all great.

What I feel they fail to do is prepare women for the slim possibility that something is going to go seriously wrong...that their baby might be still born, premature or seriously ill in some other way. How are you going to cope if you go through this or end up having to spend weeks in the nicu or scbu? Are you aware of the mental trauma you might suffer if this happens to you and where you can get the help you need?

As a mother who has been through birth trauma I think that these classes focus on the nice bits and if they even just touched on the above then it wouldn’t come as a complete shock if this foes happen...if you’ve been made aware of this and what nicu mums go through then in some tiny place your brain knows that giving birth IS still dangerous for women and babies and you can prepare for all eventualities.

YANBU I’m sick of seeing this shit. It does so much harm, making women think they’ve somehow “failed” at giving birth if they’ve needed intervention. The women who push hypnobirthing are smug at best and dangerous at worst.

Gosh how weird to read this thread and my own comment which I posted 2 months(ish) before giving birth for the first time myself.

Now I would absolutely reccomend all the pain relief offered without worry of judgement. I was originally wanting to do it without anything but I am proud I made the right decision for me and had a really positive birth in the end.

We need to stop focusing on what pain relief you chose to have, or if you have a vaginal birth or a c-section. We get judged as mother's so much for so many things, we need to stop judging ourselves and eachother for our birth stories!