AIBU about transgender person taking legal action against NHS for allowing her to transition? [[title edited by MNHQ on OP's behalf]]

[HollyGoLoudly1]

A 23 year old is taking legal action against the NHS for giving her treatment to transition to male as a teenager. She has since decided to live as a female and is taking legal action against the NHS as they should have 'challenged her' more when she wanted to transition rather than giving her the treatment.

The NHS can't do right for doing wrong here. Cash strapped to the point of collapse and being sued for giving someone the treatment they asked for. I despair.

AIBU or is this absolutely ludicrous?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51676020
from MNHQ - this title and OP originally said the person concerned was suing the NHS. They are in fact just taking legal action. The OP has asked us to make this clear but you may find some of the early posts reflect the words in the original title

In the UK there have been many opportunities for what might be described as 'more moderate' trans rights activists to speak.

Debbie Hayton, Kristina Harrisson, Seven Hex & others have been interviewed, promoted & had countless articles published.

The people who do not have a platform are parents who disagree with the affirmation experimental regime for children who are identified as transgender.

Those responsible for the NHS protocols & consequent Safeguarding failures arent aggressive young 'woke' activists. It goes much further back & responsibility rests with the likes of Domenico Di Ceglie. Russell Reid, James Barrett, Stephen Whittle, Press for Change & GIRES

Those responsible for the NHS protocols & consequent Safeguarding failures arent aggressive young 'woke' activists. It goes much further back & responsibility rests with the likes of Domenico Di Ceglie. Russell Reid, James Barrett, Stephen Whittle, Press for Change & GIRES

Also with politicians & civil service advisors who have failed to srutinise do due dilligence:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3391330-Prof-Kathleen-Stock-WPUK-speech-at-House-of-Lords-Important-disection-of-the-key-issues-for-MPs-policy-makers-etc-with-ref-to-The-Trans-Equality-Report

Victoria Derbyshire

Transgender children (FULL) documentary - BBC News
75,558 views• 7 Apr 2015

"Jessica, who's 8, and Lily, who's 6 , explain what it's like to feel they've been born in the wrong body. In an incredibly rare interview, Victoria Derbyshire speaks to two young transgender children, to get an insight into what their lives are like and what help and support is available for other children in their position. Victoria Derbyshire has been speaking to two of the youngest transgender children in the UK – with permission from their parents and with the support of the children's schools. Medical experts were also consulted"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWSAdWhB6yM

Victoria Derbyshire, the parents & the 'medical experts' should have taken guidance from child development experts (such as Katie Alcock) about well-established understandings of how young children come to understand about sex.

medium.com/@katieja/young-children-reality-sex-and-gender-3421f4f165f1

Today's program discusses the Judicial Review with Polly Carmichael:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3837234-Victoria-Derbyshire-now-legal-action-against-gender-clinic

Historically the vast majority with gender Dysphoria desisted and many were simply gay. After a 4000% increase in girls in a decade (1150%) boys it was obviousl something different was happening. Parents are being terrified into medicalising because of the 48% suicide attempt propaganda. That survey is quoted often and is based on 13 out of 27, self reported attempts. I feel for the parents it’s hard to resist when your own kid has been coached , on line, to tell you this,
I hope she wins and politicians wake up.

Parents are being terrified into medicalising because of the 48% suicide attempt propaganda

2018 Assoc Professor Michael Biggs (Oxford):
'Suicide by trans-identified children in England and Wales'
(extract)
‘I want a happy daughter, not a dead son’, proclaims Anna Friel in the new ITV drama Butterfly. This line required no creativity from the scriptwriter, as it is a constant refrain in interviews with parents. ‘I’d rather have a live daughter than a dead son.’ ‘We prefer to have a living son than a dead daughter’. ‘Our only choice was to have a dead son or a living daughter.’ ‘I’d rather have a living son than a dead daughter’. ‘Do you want a happy little girl or a dead little boy?’ ‘My wife and I decided that we would much rather have a happy, healthy daughter than a dead son.’

ITV’s drama was heavily influenced by Mermaids, the British organization invested in the transgendering of children. According to its chief executive, Susie Green:

‘I have my daughter, whole and alive, but if I had refused to listen then it’s very likely that I would have a dead son.’

Like other transgendering advocates, she never shies from raising the spectre of suicide (continues)

Although GIDS told me that it could not provide information before 2016, its website in 2017 stated that ‘suicide is extremely rare, with one case in the service in the last decade, of a young person in an inpatient ward who was referred with severe psychiatric difficulties.’ Presumably this case occurred before 2016. " (continues)

Although calculated from only four suicides, the suicide rate is much higher than for teenagers overall—in my rough (over)estimate, 13 times greater. This is a genuine cause for concern. By comparison, anorexia multiplies the risk of suicide by 18 or 31 times (depending on the method of estimation), while depression multiplies it by 20 (Smith, Zuromski, and Dodd 2018). One study finds that autism multiplies the risk of suicide by a factor of 8 (Hirvikoski et al. 2016). This latter figure is especially relevant, given the fact that 35% of children referred to GIDS recently have moderate to severe autism (Butler, De Graaf, Wren, and Carmichael 2018).

Whether the higher rate of suicide among trans-identified teens is due to gender dysphoria or to co-incident conditions such as autism deserves urgent research. At the same time, we must realize that suicides of trans-identified children are rare tragedies and not—as transgendering organizations like Mermaids imply—a common occurrence. Rational and compassionate policy-making cannot be driven by the threat of suicide.
www.transgendertrend.com/suicide-by-trans-identified-children-in-england-and-wales/

“Jessica, who's 8, and Lily, who's 6 , explain what it's like to feel they've been born in the wrong body.”

A 6 or 8 year old cannot possibly comprehend what it is to have been born in the wrong body or what the consequences of perusing this idea is and shame on their parents for parading them on TV, which will probably only reinforce the idea.

I’ve known a few primary school ages boys who wore their sisters dressing up clothes and insisted they were girls, they all grew out of it by the time secondary school came around and would probably be embarrassed if anyone brought it up now, never mind if they’d been in the media for all to gawp at.

There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body and the idea that it is possible to be should never be entertained, not for one second.

For those saying puberty blockers are a “pause” they are not.GIDS have access to the Dutch protocol which shows children invariably go onto cross sex hormones, rather than a “pause” the seem to lock in the Dysphoria and progression to a medicalised pathway, Bear in mind we know that the majority, if left unmedicalised would desist and many of those would be gay.
users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/Biggs_ExperimentPubertyBlockers.pdf

Siameasy, you are talking too much sense. I fear the world will never come back to sanity.

There'll be loads more of these cases to come. Kids don't have the capacity to consent to this. They just don't.

I can understand many kids will be in trauma. Society still has very fixed, sexist ideas of what it means to be a man or a woman, and these can be very restrictive and cause real misery.
But the solution is to rebel against (destroy?) these sexist prejudices, not change our bodies to try to fit in with them.

You wouldn't deal with racism by try to change someone's race, would you?

Sadly, I think you are right, MrsB.

NC because my usual username is known and dd isn't ready to be out about this yet in the current climate.

When dd was in her early teens she told us she was really a boy, she insisted on changing her name, cutting her hair short etc. She "persisted" in this belief and did not waver for about a year.

Thank the goddess this was before this gender identity madness descended. We continued to call her by the name she was given at birth, the school (of course) insisted she still wear the girl's uniform. Some teachers called her by this new name (an androgynous name she chose) but most continued to use her given name.

she grew out of it.

As an adult human female (woman) now, she will say that she thought she must be a boy / wanted to be a boy because she wanted to do all the things the boys did, not the girls.

She is straight, not lesbian, just gender non conforming. She had no interest in anything "girly"growing up and has only now, in her late 20's, begun to relax a bit and sometimes buy clothes on the basis of looks not comfort.

I have no doubt, and nor does she, that if she were that child now, she would have been knocking on the Tavistock's door and would have convinced them that she was "really" a boy trapped in a girl's body. She believed it, she would have been convincing, very convincing.

It's the job of parents to be the grown ups and say "no", no matter how hard that is. I hope I would have been able to be that parent if faced with it today, but bloody hell, the whole medical and educational systems would NOT be supporting me now would they?

I know she's not the only teen to have gone through this because I've seen such similar stories told on MN before, it's common, it's always been common.

Spot on dingle and relieved it worked out!

I don’t get why society isn’t celebrating gender non-conforming people. We used to do this more! I idolised George of the ‘Five. Where’s the equivalent now?!

I pretty much refuse to acknowledge trans any more unless my livelihood depends on it. I’m afraid I’ve got to the point where I just don’t believe in it. I call it gender non conforming men/women now. Gender isn’t real.

dinglethedragon that is why I worry so much about these young girls, the obviously transient nature of their feelings and beliefs, things you can understand looking in from the outside with experience and maturity under your belt. Being 15 and female can be rubbish, being 15 and female and gay even more so, where are the role models in the main stream media ? I think I can probably name 3, can anyone else beat that, I am sure you can

God that was really clumsy wasn't it , sorry !

dingle
I am a straight married mother in my 50’s. I wear a skirt about once every year. When I was growing up my favourite toy was my Action Man Helicopter, I had short hair and played football at break time. I dread to think how I might have been viewed today. I am 100% female and very secure in that identity but supporters of gender stereotypes would potentially try to suggest otherwise.

Yes Siamesy I have reached the point where my head can't compute trans any more.
I'm not even sure about the gender non-conforming men/women. They are just men and women with different likes/interests/strengths/traits etc.

I found your post very clear.

I support the lawsuit. This will hopefully bring everyone back to their senses, as the NHS shouldn't be paying for people to transition in the first place.

dingle - I too went through a similar thing in my teens, although not to the extent of changing my name. But I used to fantasise about being a boy, I hated girly stuff, preferred hanging out with boys and used to wear very masculine clothes most of the time. I still loathe pink (I know that's not a "given" but it still symbolises the "girly" shit that I hated)

Like Chaz, I'm a straight woman in my 50s who liked to play with trains and Action Man as a child. I do like my longer hair but that's mostly because I have a really weird head shape, and anyway Brian May is my hero!

But yes, I too have thought the same - if this was me now, I'd have been pushed down the transgender route too.

I hated puberty, didn't want any of this female nonsense of growing boobs and hair and having periods. And for girls on the spectrum (which I am not), that can translate into an almost phobic reaction which I believe contributes to their "rapid onset gender dysphoria".

The best solution is to do away with gender entirely. Fuck it off. If only people hadn't been so fucking twee about discussing the SEX of individuals, the whole gender issue wouldn't have grown so far out of hand, I think. So get rid of it. Get rid of the stupid stereotypes and the gender-associated behaviours and dress codes - let people be and wear what they want without recrimination.

But keep laws against SEX-based discrimination as a necessary equality measure, and keep safe SEX-based spaces because women need them.

Role models for gay girls: Ellen de Generes is of course one of the best, Portia Rossi (her wife), Sara Gilbert, Clare Balding, Martina Navratilova, Wanda Sykes, Gina Yashere, Sue Perkins, Mary Portas - some of these are more "feminine", some less so. There are others but these were the ones I could think of.

www.peaktrans.org/detransitioning/ this is a good site with lots more links for detransitioning stories, if it hasn't already been linked to.

This is the top featured one:
I'm detransitioning
"I’m 19. I was born female, but I’ve lived as a transman for 4 years. I took testosterone for 2. I went cold turkey on T last week.

I’m detransitioning because I’m sick of this community. I’m sick of the kind of activism that’s done in its name. I’m sick of people who want to beat up old ladies in London, completely unprovoked, because she has a different opinion than them.

It started when I saw all this bullshit on tumblr– went cold turkey on that fucking site too. Transwomen saying shit like “anything a trans man can do, trans women can do better”. Calling transmen “shrimp dick”, “fish taco”. Transwomen saying that women deserve to be murdered, raped, burned at the stake, because they’re TERFs.

I saw this all before I transitioned. It’s called male violence, aggression, entitlement. If I have to say through my teeth “transwomen are women” one more time, I’ll fucking explode.

I know. I know that not all transwomen are horrible. I know there are incredible transwomen out there. But I can’t pretend that they weren’t born male, that I wasn’t born female, and that we weren’t socialized accordingly.

I’m disgusted and frightened by how cultlike this community has become. I lost friends for saying I was detransitioning. I’m going to lose more. No one wants you to say “I’m comfortable being gender non-conforming and NOT transitioning”. I was a tomboy all my life. In high school, my transman friend told me I should transition. I did, because I was a fucking idiot, and I hated myself, and I hated being a girl.

I’m sick of being such a sexist fuck. A non binary ex friend of mine always called men with long hair “they/them”. They sure as fuck didn’t do that for guys with short hair. My sister, talking about our cousin’s new baby, was all “she’s such a rowdy baby. She’ll probably turn out trans.”

Why are we medicating people who don’t conform? Why are we giving children the choice to make a life-altering medical decision based on sexism, when they can’t even get a tattoo? Why are we telling girls who don’t want to get caught in the trap of femininity, “oh, well, you must actually be a boy.”

FUCK that.

I’m detransitioning. I’m sorry for every and any part I played in trans activism. I was complacent listening to people talk about punching women who disagreed with them. I believed such sexist fucking things. I let other people, the med complex, and stupid little problems like pronouns control my life. There are bigger issues in the world than bathrooms. I’m sorry I spent so much time, money, and emotional effort caring about something that meant less than shit.”

MrsBethel: You wouldn't deal with racism by trying to change someone's race, would you?

A perfect analogy. Thank you.

Transwomen saying shit like “anything a trans man can do, trans women can do better”. Calling transmen “shrimp dick”, “fish taco

Wtf? 😠 It's not a surprise though. This is after all a men's rights movement.

I hope she wins her case.