AIBU about transgender person taking legal action against NHS for allowing her to transition? [[title edited by MNHQ on OP's behalf]]

[HollyGoLoudly1]

A 23 year old is taking legal action against the NHS for giving her treatment to transition to male as a teenager. She has since decided to live as a female and is taking legal action against the NHS as they should have 'challenged her' more when she wanted to transition rather than giving her the treatment.

The NHS can't do right for doing wrong here. Cash strapped to the point of collapse and being sued for giving someone the treatment they asked for. I despair.

AIBU or is this absolutely ludicrous?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51676020
from MNHQ - this title and OP originally said the person concerned was suing the NHS. They are in fact just taking legal action. The OP has asked us to make this clear but you may find some of the early posts reflect the words in the original title

I am thrilled you want to learn about this - education is key.

I've already seen that page JBEM4. It says that an unwillingness to conform to regressive sex role stereotypes suggests a diagnosis of gender dysphoria (particularly in children). What is a 'gender identity' anyway and what use is it to anyone?

I watched this young woman's interview and could cry for her. She is so brave to do this and potentially help many other young people avoid what happened to her. Sadly it really needs young people to stand up and do this because it seems to me any older women who do are labelled "Terfs" in a way that reminds me of previous rounds of witch trials and persecution. Hate and fear towards non-submissive post-menopausal women seems to me to have marked many societies over time.

Unfortunately mental health management in England is vulnerable to people who are focussed on meeting targets and would easily be manipulated by this inexplicable pressure to transition kids, the panic at the rising waiting lists and the pressures to get them down.

In a recent survey of primary care mental health workers in England, over 40% reported being asked to manipulate statistics for instance therapymeetsnumbers.com/hitting-a-new-low/

And here, those given the drug in childhood on their experiences
khn.org/news/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems/

Have a look at the Lupron Victims Hub, particularly the extremely heavily redacted studies undertaken by the manufacturers and the adverse reports.

@JBEM4

My heart breaks for you, you are in such a difficult position.

But truly, the doctors cannot give you categorical assurances about your child's long term health, fertility and sexual satisfaction regarding transition - the science just isn't there yet. So it is to a degree shot in the dark. Your child may feel that this is still better than living in the body that they were born in. But you will not be making a decision based upon all the facts, just the best guess at the moment.

I do think it is frequently (but not always) a mental health issue in the sense that there is a disconnect between how a person feels in them self and their reality - I was anorexic. Personally, I never thought I was fat, I was bright/capable and functional enough in the real world that I was able to ace GCSEs and A levels and get into Oxford, but I did believe on a fundamental unalterable level that being thinner today than I was yesterday would improve my life. And this belief was harmful to me. I therefore had a mental health issue. Luckily I got past it and have my own family now. I don't think that feeling that one associates with the opposite sex is that far different, but just my personal view.

Not sure why she is 'brave'... teenager gets what she want and feels entitled to, then when she grows up realises she made a bad choice. Why not pursue Mermaids etc for making children think they can magically change sex in the first place?

I am thrilled you want to learn about this - education is key.

I’ve seen the link to that NHS page before. It’s not facts though. Gender identity isn’t fact. Its completely tied in with stereotypes, which are so damaging to everyone in society.

is a disorder not a mental health issue

What kind of disorder? I've read the NHS before and have now again. It doesn't give an answer.

And yes gender identity is not a fact

Why not pursue Mermaids etc for making children think they can magically change sex in the first place?

The judicial review examines whether GIDS have acted unlawfully. When that ruling comes, it’ll likely bring open season on suing Mermaids, who have been pressuring GIDS to supply these drugs to younger and younger children.

Keira isn’t doing this for money, it’s not a compensation claim, it’s an examination of how the laws apply to this particular drug, in this particular patient cohort.

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER I stand corrected - I was referencing the WHO no longer classifying being trans as a mental health condition or gender identity disorder (as in mental health disorder). They have renamed it as gender incongruence.

I am not claiming to be an expert - I'm just a mum trying my best with limited resources, a shitload of backlash and ignorance and little support.

I think many people think if the NHS or the medical world offers something as a possibility then it must be ok. This hasn’t always been the case and this issue is no different. Doctors who think it’s wrong are scared of speaking out about this issue, others have been misled by questionable organisations and advisors. It is so sad for the children involved.

A decision needs to be made as to the minimum age for this treatment. A child, determined as they may be, does a lot of growing up between teen and twenties. People can regret their decisions no matter what age they are. She wanted to change, they offered her the treatment, she regrets the decision and blames the people that gave her the treatment. Where were her parents in this?

I am not claiming to be an expert - I'm just a mum trying my best with limited resources, a shitload of backlash and ignorance and little support.

You are in a very difficult position and I really feel for you. The supposed ‘experts’ here are not experts at all, that’s the worrying thing. Many are going along with things they don’t necessarily think are right through fear of being labelled transphobic, others are believing sources that have their own agendas.

I am not claiming to be an expert - I'm just a mum trying my best with limited resources, a shitload of backlash and ignorance and little support.

Me too. Solidarity ✊🏻

‘Gender incongruence’ is classified as a sexual health condition - I don’t think my child has a sexual health condition.

They change the clinical name for trans related stuff all the time due to political lobbying. That frightens me.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0168522

Do patients with other conditions get to name them? My youngest child’s condition has had the same Latin name since it was first identified in the 1950s...

@thetoddleratemyhomework - the only difficult position I'm in is witnessing and feeling the difficulties my child is going through while reading some of the comments on here and feeling like I have to justify and explain why my child is who he is. HE is just HIM.

Where this will lead and what choices HE chooses to make is still unknown but I hope to God he never crossed paths with some of the posters on here. They'll have him in a straight jacket and be splashing him with holy water (if they're able to to actually realise he's trans)

I believe its very easy to form an opinion but harder to accept that sometimes things just are what they are..... There doesn't need to be a definitive reason especially when the situation has zero impact on your own life.

I was referencing the WHO no longer classifying being trans as a mental health condition or gender identity disorder (as in mental health disorder). They have renamed it as gender incongruence.

I think people may be reading too much into these changes in WHO language of classification.

BMJ 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles#82215722

There doesn't need to be a definitive reason especially when the situation has zero impact on your own life

But we are here discussing Keira Bell, who is now dealing with irreversible, lifelong impact.

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER

I had a total hysterectomy two years ago for a number of reasons but mainly P.M.D.D.

I was fortunate enough to find a consultant who knew and understood this condition and we did what was necessary to save my life.

Before this I was misdiagnosed for several years and "treated" for mental health issues.

Whatever category or name or title they want to put trans people under it won't ever change the fact that it's real, it's a medically proven condition and there is no generic treatment. Each trans person can and should be able to determine what steps they need to take to reconcile their mind and body. The stigma needs to stop.

Each trans person can and should be able to determine what steps they need to take to reconcile their mind and body.

I agree, but they arent. Those who feel as though they are trans are being pushed down a road they very likely wouldnt go down if there was better mental health services.

They need to develop a test for it then. Otherwise there will be more Keira Bells.

Why aren’t trans activists campaigning for research into better diagnostics?
Why are they willing to throw vulnerable children and teenagers under the bus purely to avoid ‘gatekeeping’?

I believe its very easy to form an opinion but harder to accept that sometimes things just are what they are..... There doesn't need to be a definitive reason especially when the situation has zero impact on your own life.

This is about a Judicial Review into whether part of the NHS has treated children appropriately with regards the Duty of Care & Safeguarding responsibilities they have to patients.
GIDS inform how primary health services respond to children presenting to GPs with distress.
Safeguarding is the responsibility of all adults & NHS protocols can impact any child.

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER and Keira is seeking recourse on the decisions she made based on the information she was given. She has the right to change her mind and if she wants to place blame elsewhere then it needs to be taken seriously.

If this case makes the process more stringent and intensive etc for other trans people then that's a bonus but in our experience thus far we are nowhere near discussing hormone treatments or surgeries and as a parent it's not something we need to discuss until he has completed his assessments and has his diagnosis.

She has the right to change her mind and if she wants to place blame elsewhere then it needs to be taken seriously.

Kiera was misdiagnosed. This isn’t as simple as choosing and changing your mind. You of all people should know that.

Each trans person can and should be able to determine what steps they need to take to reconcile their mind and body.

Children cannot be determining what medical interventions they should have by the NHS in order to 'reconcile their body & mind'.
This doesnt happen with other changes a child might want to make to their body when distressed, why should it be the case when a child is identified as trans?

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult why do they need better mental health services? It's not a mental health condition.....