To think that the world would not be a better place without Heidi *Content Warning - abortion/disability edited by MNHQ*

[bridgetreilly]

Heidi is 24 and has Downs syndrome. She is beautiful and brilliant and very articulate in explaining why the UK abortion law is discriminatory in allowing abortion up to full term where the child has Downs syndrome (and other non-fatal disabilities including cleft palate or club foot), when the standard limit is 24 weeks.

She's not the only one to think that. The United Nations’ Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities’ concluding observations on the initial report of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made a key recommendation that the UK change its abortion law on disability so that it does not single out babies with disabilities. However, the Government has decided to ignore this recommendation.

Heidi, along with the mother of a young boy with Downs syndrome, is planning to sue the government for discrimination. She is amazing and I hope she wins.

they are represented by a young lady that is very functional, which is not really the case for most people with Down syndrome.
I know 3 people born with Downe's Syndrome (one of whom was my cousin and died aged 32) and they are/were all high functioning, confident, outgoing, articulate individuals.

@angell84 because we respect woman and their anatomy more.

Why are we so differing from the norm?

angell84 if the norm is an acceptance of forced pregnancy, then I think we should move away from the norm as fast as possible.

I am just wondering why the U.K is different to the normal standard in most other countries in Europe.

I am looking online, and I can't see who decided 24 weeks for the U.K, or why. I must search some more

Sorry, change that to 4 (3 alive and 1 has passed away).

A lot of the European countries you mentioned have abortion on demand up to 12 weeks, then after that it is legal in later trimesters on the same terms as it is in the UK, on physical and mental health grounds.

I find the hypocrisy here quite amusing. So as long as the baby will have a terrible illness or deformity it's okay to 'murder' it, but otherwise not. Is 'murder' acceptable or isn't it?

A foetus cannot be discriminated against.

If you believe in abortion restrictions you are not pro-choice.

Women should have full autonomy over their own bodies, no questions asked.

@NotEverythingIsBlackandwhite good for you.

1 I know died a week before her 1st birthday.
1 lived past 50 but with huge needs that burdened not only her parents but in turn her sister. Who while loved her sister was not happy about what had been placed on her life.

Why are we so differing from the norm?

The real question is why the norm is so very anti bodily autonomy for women.

I'm sorry, not in fact I'm not - but I could not be a mother to a child with DS. Many couldn't. I'm actually against abortion after 16 weeks, but this I feel strongly about too.

Why after 16 weeks.
At least pro birthers have a semi logical argument. I can not abide these hoki poki people. One foot in one foot out. Who pick a random gestation.

The laws should be the same for all babies, whether you are pro choice or not.
If it a women's right to abort a full term DS baby, it should also be her right to abort a healthy baby at the same stage.

If it isn't a right to do this due to the child being viable, this should apply for DS babies too

Yes, it's a life limiting condition, yes it affects the child, parents and wider families, and yes it is a spectrum and for every child who had a good quality of life, there is one who cannot,

But the same can be said for many many other disabilities which not be diagnosed before birth.

If a child is born, and then discovered to be blind/have cerebral Palsy or any number of other conditions would you give the mother the right to demand thar baby be killed so her life need not be impacted?

Of course you wouldn't.

The cut off should be 24 weeks for or, or 38 weeks for all irrespective of disability

The fact you can't abort a healthy baby past 24 weeks is more to do with the fact no Doctor is likely to carry it out.

My DN has experience of late term abortions and poured her heart out to us after one such shift.

Well I’m sure it was hardly a bed of roses for the poor woman requiring the late term termination

And this whole you wouldn't kill a baby born with XYZ. Well no. Because that's murder.

The moment it takes its first breath it lives. It has rights. And it's it's own being.

Independent of the mother.

While inside another woman. It's all about her.

@angell84

You,are,much younger than me and so do not remember the seismic shift brought about by David Steel’s Abortion Act of 1967. That’s what you need to read up about to see how we got to where we are now

I do not believe in any abortion restrictions.

What I personally would do is irrelevant. I want every woman to have the choice.

I sort of agree that it’s wrong to let people abort a fetus with DS after 24 weeks but not a healthy fetus. I think women should be able to decide to abort any fetus at any point.

I don’t think it’s about how good a life the fetus could have, it’s about whether the mother wants to have that child at that point. Whether she wants the work and commitment involved (whether it’s the hard work of a baby without special needs or the harder work of a child with more needs). And if she’s not ready then abortion is a better choice than not aborting. There will be other children. We shouldn’t be bringing the ones we don’t want into the world.

I agree that the current policy is discriminatory. I don’t see how we can ban termination of a non disabled foetus at 25+ weeks but allow termination of a disabled foetus at the same stage. Either both should be allowed or both should be banned.

My view is both should be allowed. I do not agree with forcing women to continue pregnancies they don’t want or give birth to children they don’t want.

A foetus cannot be discriminated against

So untrue. Female fetuses are aborted for no other reason than they are female. This is discrimination.

So is the exception for Downs. But, some DS cases truly are a death sentence so you’d have to make a distinction between those somehow. A blanket ban does no good.

But the real point is that these tests need to performed in a timely fashion as no one wants a late-term abortion. They are horrific.

The typical ‘early as possible late as necessary’ drones are here though and then all nuance in this conversation is lost 🙄

What a silly thread title OP. Nobody on any side of this debate is saying the world would be a better place without Heidi.

Needs a trigger warning.

I don't think you can discriminate against something that isn't a person yet.

Sex selective abortions are not discrimination either, because it's still a foetus were talking about.

Women should be trusted and have the right to make their own choices about their bodies, regardless of the reasons.

If you want to restrict abortions you first have to provide for the parents coping with disabled children, and children who need to live in care full time.

At the moment, you want to vote for swingeing benefit cuts and austerity.

So make up your minds. Which is it to be?

In my opinion women should be able to abort for any grounds at any length of gestation. I don't agree with forced birth.