To think that the world would not be a better place without Heidi *Content Warning - abortion/disability edited by MNHQ*

[bridgetreilly]

Heidi is 24 and has Downs syndrome. She is beautiful and brilliant and very articulate in explaining why the UK abortion law is discriminatory in allowing abortion up to full term where the child has Downs syndrome (and other non-fatal disabilities including cleft palate or club foot), when the standard limit is 24 weeks.

She's not the only one to think that. The United Nations’ Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities’ concluding observations on the initial report of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made a key recommendation that the UK change its abortion law on disability so that it does not single out babies with disabilities. However, the Government has decided to ignore this recommendation.

Heidi, along with the mother of a young boy with Downs syndrome, is planning to sue the government for discrimination. She is amazing and I hope she wins.

I am pro women’s rights over their bodies, however I agree I do think that there is a point in pregnancy where the baby is viable and therefore has rights of it’s own.

I am also supportive of abortion for disability early in pregnancy, but not over 24 weeks. It feels wrong.

People have a rose tinted idea of raising a child with special needs. The reality is ptsd, anxiety, loneliness, poverty

I completely agree & I find it odd that people aren't so passionate about caring for the disabled children & adults in society already amongst us. Where is the support for families with disabled children, emotionally, financially, logistically? Where is the support for carers?

The thread title is goady as fuck and illogical.

Has anyone watch the video? Here's a short excerpt:

News Presenter: It is discrimination you argue. Some would also argue that what about the rights of the women? [sic] The rights for women to have that choice?

Heidi's Mum: That really isn't the issue that we're here for today.

No shit. Way to just avoid addressing the consequences of your campaign.

Obviously, whilst most women will be expected to decide by 24 weeks whether they want to carry their baby to term or get an abortion, if the baby is disabled it may take slightly longer to get the results back from the tests and make a decision. It is not about anyone's life being worth more than others and those who say that it is are spectacularly missing the point.

But I can't get on board with the idea of terminations at any point up to birth for healthy babies either and think the people who argue for this are extreme and lacking in judgement.

I don't agree with this campaign. The law should stay as it is.

The only way they can balance it out is for better and safer testing at earlier stages to identify and confirm abnormalities with sufficient time for the parents to consider there options and, if required receive the abortion at an earlier juncture.

Conversely better support for parents of children with these disabilities.

My anomaly scans were all done at 21 weeks, more like 21.5 weeks. That doesn't leave a lot of time for further tests, results, discussions with medical professionals, research & processing all that information. Luckily I've never had to be in that position so I don't see how I can judge someone who has.

NewNameEveryWeek exactly.

It's a very manipulative campaign.

* Obviously, whilst most women will be expected to decide by 24 weeks whether they want to carry their baby to term or get an abortion, if the baby is disabled it may take slightly longer to get the results back from the tests and make a decision.*

A 24 week hard deadline would probably result in more DS fetus’ being terminated if parents aren’t given time to think about what they want to do or get medical advice re special needs.

@Carravaggio having read your post I’m so sorry. Case by case decisions with compassion and quality of life in mind seem wisest

@doolally1 I agree that families, with disabilities in children get very little support. I have a high SN child and receive virtually nothing, it contribute to the marriage failing so I am on my own, and it’s incredibly difficult. I worry how my DS will cope when I die.

I am also supportive of abortion for disability early in pregnancy, but not over 24 weeks.

The "20 week" anomaly scan is carried out anywhere between 18 weeks and 22 weeks depending on when appointments are available. In my last pregnancy I actually had mine at 24 weeks as I had HG and was trying to reduce the meds for it but ended up vomiting too much to attend my appointment at 21 weeks and had to reschedule.

If a woman has her appointment at 21 weeks and a potential problem is detected they may say they will do a more detailed scan, this may be done by a foetal medicine specialist and so another appointment is needed.

The follow-up scan is done at 22 weeks. There is definitely a problem. The woman is told what it possibly is and is offered further tests to confirm/clarify. She opts for these and is given an appointment for them.

The tests are done at 23 weeks. The results take around a week.

At 24 weeks the woman has the results confirmed and is asked whether she wants to proceed with the pregnancy. If the cut off was 24 weeks she would need to decide there and then and be booked in that day in order to get it done before the time limit.

The reason the law allows an abortion past 24wks in circumstances such as these is so that woman has time to think about it, to get a second opinion if she wants a second opinion, to talk it over with her partner, her mum, her best friend, a counsellor- whoever she wants to talk it over with, and to make the decision that is best for her. The law allows for the extra time so that her decision is not a knee jerk reaction made under the pressure of time ticking away, so that she is as sure as she can be that she wants to either end the pregnancy or continue it.

@Coolcucumber2020 I really feel
for you. Also some people in society behave disgustingly towards disabled people which I have sadly witnessed.

I think forced birth is always worse than late abortion.

@Smileyaxolotl1 you honestly think a 38 week old foetus should be executed? Wow.

Executed?

You guilt women using that kind of outlandish terminology. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Iv just come home today from supporting my friend at the funeral of a lovely profoundly disabled 17 year year old young man (her grandchild) his family are absolutely devastated at his death, the raw grief was heartbreaking to witness. His mothers entire life for the last 17 years has been this child (then young man) and his very significant care needs and I don't doubt that she wouldn't have changed one minute of it because he was a hugely loved son/sibling/grandchild. The hole in her life now he has gone will be so big she may never come close to filling it.

And in this particular example his mother didn't know until after he was born and so she didn't have to think about options but if 17 years (and a few months/weeks ago) she had found out about his disabilities and had decided that she didn't want to continue that pregnancy that would have been her choice based on if she thought she would be able to or want to raise this child and for one would never dream of judging her choice.

No woman should be forced to birth and either give the child up for adoption or raise a child they don't want or don't think they could cope raising and as a side not no child wants to be born to a mother who didn't want them/think they couldn't cope raising them but was forced to birth them! I am the child of a mother who didn't want a child and it sucks!

Not judging. Just wanting to clarify.

Aren't fetuses very well developed at 24 weeks, also?

I’m not in favour of any further restriction on abortion rights.

Here’s the stats for England and Wales
www.gov.uk/government/collections/abortion-statistics-for-england-and-wales#history

And for Scotland
www.isdscotland.org/Health-Topics/Sexual-Health/Publications/2019-05-28/2019-05-28-Terminations-2018-Report.pdf

@angell84 but still dependent on a females body.

I always thought that abortions at 24 weeks was veryblate. Premature babies have been born at 24 weeks and survived.

Most countries only offer abortions up to 12 weeks.

We, the U.K, are one of only three countries in Europe who offer abortions after 12 weeks.

Does anyone else think that the U.K is strange on this aspect, that 24 weeks is very late anyway?

*very late

Ginky

No @angell84 the difference between a 24 week premature baby and a 24 week Foetus is that one is inside a human and one is not.

The alternative is going back to unsafe backyard abortions where women get infections and bleed to death, slowly and painfully.

I’m not for that.

I personally could not care for a disabled child and would not put that burden on my existing children in event of my death. I make no apologies.

@GothamProtector

My question is, why do we allow abortions up to 24 weeks, when most other European countries offer abortions to 12 weeks?

Why are we so differing from the norm?

Does anyone else think that the U.K is strange on this aspect, that 24 weeks is very late anyway?

Stats show vast majority of abortions happen before 12 weeks.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.