To think that the world would not be a better place without Heidi *Content Warning - abortion/disability edited by MNHQ*

[bridgetreilly]

Heidi is 24 and has Downs syndrome. She is beautiful and brilliant and very articulate in explaining why the UK abortion law is discriminatory in allowing abortion up to full term where the child has Downs syndrome (and other non-fatal disabilities including cleft palate or club foot), when the standard limit is 24 weeks.

She's not the only one to think that. The United Nations’ Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities’ concluding observations on the initial report of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made a key recommendation that the UK change its abortion law on disability so that it does not single out babies with disabilities. However, the Government has decided to ignore this recommendation.

Heidi, along with the mother of a young boy with Downs syndrome, is planning to sue the government for discrimination. She is amazing and I hope she wins.

Seems like a 'cruel to be kind' sort of scenario. cruel yes, as you're aborting a 'life' so to speak at 38 weeks. but kind, as you're not subjecting someone to having an incredibly difficult life (depending on financial & emotional circumstances).

the bottom line? Bold: A woman owns her body, nobody else. NOT SOCIETY.

It is such a difficult topic . I lost a very old friend due to this topic. We had been friends for 20 years.

I mentioned once that I agreed with abortion, and she refused to speak to me ever again. She had been adopted, and ahe aeemed to take the topic of abortion extra personally because of this. That her mother hadn't wanted her, and if abortion would have been available at the time, (she lived in ireland) she would have been dead

I literally lost one of my best friends of twenty years.

So, I never speak about it in real life anymore.

It’s pretty common for forced-birthers to hijack the emotion around an incredibly rare event - if it even happens at all - to try and wind back rights.

It’s great though that so many people volunteer their time to offer care, or at least respite care, to people with disabilities. That is what everyone who knows from
lived experience what it means to be a carer but still wants to insist that others take it on is doing, right?

I don't believe it's exactly fun for the women having late term terminations. If you can't sympathize with them, I'm not sure you're ready to be a parent.

would you give the mother the right to demand thar baby be killed so her life need not be impacted?

I would give the option of euthanasia if it was certain that the child would live a short and painful life, yes. Not so the mother's life 'need not be impacted' (although I have no idea why you've come out with that emotive crap - ALL babies impact your life!) but because a swift and peaceful death is merciful.

Yep, I agree with you @ViciousJackdaw.

So you think women should be forced to give birth to babies when they know they don't have the ability to look after them?

There's always adoption. I wouldn't like to see the Icelandic situation here where the abortion rate for DS is 100%. Source article in a Sunday broadsheet a couple of years ago.

If you want to restrict abortions you first have to provide for the parents coping with disabled children, and children who need to live in care full time.

Exactly!

Which is why highly conservative Catholic South American countries relaxed their prohibition on abortion for the zilka virus - not fair on the women - or the state or society - to be forced to give birth to profoundly disabled children that cannot be supported

I wouldn't like to see the Icelandic situation here where the abortion rate for DS is 100%

Why not?

The late abortion rules allowed me to choose to wait until the 20 week scan to check for Patau's syndrome (I am a carrier, owing to a chromosomal abnormality) rather than needing to risk CVS at 13 weeks so no, I think let's leave it where it is.

I'm not in favour of forced birth.

@winniethekid, do explain. Why on earth does the termination rate for DS (or indeed any other condition detectable via a scan during pregnancy) in Iceland bother you?

How do adoption rates for downs babies compare to babies in general?

Its the womans choice here not society. I am lucky to work with people like heidi but as a result have seen the early demantia that people with ds can get. One lad broke my heart. As a result i would never have a child with ds. The heart problems, ld etc are nothing to the early demantia. Lets leave the law as it is with womans choice.

I have a child with a genetic disorder, she is severely disabled and I don't think I would have terminated for DS but I really do not think that a forced birth is acceptable where a woman does not feel able to go ahead with the pregnancy.

however, if a woman would find out at 24 weeks that she was pregnant with a healthy child, she would be forced to give birth.

I think they are drawing attention to the fact that already in utero a child with DS is treated as less than a child without.

BoudoirPink
do you think it is a positive development that every prenatally diagnosed child with DS in Iceland is aborted? It sound like that? Why is that?

So you think women should be forced to give birth to babies when they know they don't have the ability to look after them?

There's always adoption. I wouldn't like to see the Icelandic situation here where the abortion rate for DS is 100%

So a 100% adoption rate would be desirable ?

do you think it is a positive development that every prenatally diagnosed child with DS in Iceland is aborted?

Am I a bad person for thinking yes? Maybe ... but my feeling is that if you can avoid bringing children into the world with developmental problems, then maybe you should do so?

It does get uncomfortable though. Where is the line? What if there is a test for the “gay” gene? What if you can get a full genetic profile at six weeks and decide you don’t want to raise this particular child because it will have red hair or will not be all that intelligent or sporty (or whatever qualities you value)

Already female fetuses are aborted for convenience in some countries. So I can definitely see an argument here

I do not support restricting of women's rights over their own body. I am firmly pro choice and think any pregnancy should be able to be aborted on the decision of the mother (and her medical practitioner) at any point. It shouldn't be a matter for law. Nobody aborts late term for shits and giggles, it's an extremely traumatic procedure that will scar a woman for life. She's not aborting at 30 weeks because she can't be arsed with a disabled baby, she's not aborting because she suddenly changed her mind. By the time a pregnancy is at 30 plus weeks that baby is WANTED, any abortion then is heartbreaking there's no need to make it more traumatic than forcing a woman to have to right for her rights over her own body. No mother should be forced to bear and raise a baby with extra needs whom she may not have the resources or support to care for properly.

I would much rather babies with Downs were born into families who WANT them and can care for them as they best deserve.

I terminated for trisomy 21 at 14 weeks. It was the right thing to do and I would do it again.
Taking away a woman’s right to choose is wrong.

There is a huge difference between appreciating a fully grown person, who is also highly functional, and contemplating ending a pregnancy because of a potentially debilitating genetic abnormality.

Stop guilt tripping women who have to make this decision. It’s tough enough without this sort of emotional blackmail.

A woman has a right to choose what to do with her body.

Sorry @winniethekid, that article (and the widespread misinformation) after was bullshit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Iceland They only recently changed their laws up to 22 weeks last year and still won't carry out abortion 'on request'.

This campaign is sickening. The way they use an individual to make it so emotive. We are regressing in women’s rights if we go down this path.

@dairyfairies do you think it is a positive development that every prenatally diagnosed child with DS in Iceland is aborted? This just flat isn't true. Iceland has one of the most conservative abortion laws in europe.

I terminated for trisomy 21 at 14 weeks

Then this wouldn’t affect you. They want DS cases treated like other fetuses, in that you can’t abort after 24 weeks. It’s not something I totally agree with but there’s an argument there.

Frankly I wouldn’t have a child with DS either.

Sorry @winniethekid, that article (and the widespread misinformation) after was bullshit

I'm glad it was.