Are you still pro-Brexit?

[Fatasfooook]

Brexit will have soon cost the UK more than all its payments to the EU over the past 47 years put together

www.businessinsider.com/brexit-will-cost-uk-more-than-total-payments-to-eu-2020-1?fbclid=IwAR3E3Xc8p0bgNF06hCJZzr61Ak-6VetNbFv5vrfsV041nPvDZeFSCnjHcdg&r=US&IR=T

Based on the leavers I know, they believed they were voting for something that was guaranteed to be better because the leave campaign told them that. These are people spread across a fairly wide demographic (including age and location). I like a these people a lot, they are good people. They are not stupid people.

They were convinced by the "project fear" mantra that none of the negative outcomes predicted were actually going to happen.

There will be some who acknowledged that there was a risk and decided it was a risk worth taking (for everyone not only themselves) but the idea that every leave voter genuinely thought "this might all turn to shit but what the hell, let's give it a go" is, at best, disingenuous. Lots of people believed the lies they were told and voted on that basis.

In fact, if all leavers did acknowledge the risk and decided to take it anyway then that's even more infuriating.

The majority didn’t vote to leave. 37% of those eligible to vote voted to leave

Oh FFS here we go again. That’s larger than the percentage who were eligible to vote who voted to remain though, isn’t it? And in the end the only votes that matter are the actual, countable ones, not the hypothetical votes of the people who might have voted to remain had they not opted to stay in bed. Same as the general election.

I’m sick of hearing about those mysterious non-voting voters and how they would have swung it for Remain. Utterly sick of it. It’s irrelevant. It’s not an argument. It proves nothing. It means nothing. They didn’t vote because they either didn’t know or didn’t care.

You can’t assume to know how they would have voted, even if they’d been marched to the polling booth at gunpoint, so do us all a favour and stop mentioning them. It’s too late, they are not coming To save you. It’s over. You are starting to sound like a bunch of mad Miss Havershams sitting in your rocking chairs covered in cobwebs waiting for all the Remainers who didn’t vote to rush through to door and say ‘So sorry we are late, we are here now.’

Even if they did, it means NOTHING now. It’s time to put it behind you and move on for your own flipping sanity.

I’m angry that when asked the question many people didn't recognise that they were taking a risk by voting leave.

Again and again, it never stops, does it? That arrogant assumption that people were too stupid to understand what they were voting for.

I voted leave.
I am neither old nor stupid.
I was not influenced by lies told by either side. And both sides lied.
I voted leave because I wanted to leave the EU.
I didn't like being a net contributor
I didn't like the ECJ.
I didn't like the the bureaucracy
I didn't like the money wasted moving from one city to the next
I didn't like "ever closer union"
I didn't like the idea of an EU army.

@FieldOfFlameAndHeather

I am telling you that the people I have spoken to did not know. You might have known, that doesn't mean that everyone did.

You knew so you chose to gamble on my behalf. I'm really angry about that and I won't "move on" because it would be convenient for you if I did do. I will be angry about it, even if it turns out that we do really well out of it (which I consider to be unlikely but not impossible).

Yes, absolutely made up that we’ve left the E.U. There’s a much bigger picture to all of this that a lot of people will not understand or see but it will all become a lot clearer as we go along.

fieldofflameandheather 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I didn't like the idea of an EU army.

This again? Really?

Great, @OrganicSmorganic do enlighten us!

@HenHarrier I know right?

Yes. Leaving the EU is like leaving a well paid job with a pension etc to work for yourself. A risky business that can go very well or very badly, but you don't know which in the first week or two so changing your mind then would be foolish.

The majority didn’t vote to leave. imagine if we had the vote again and remaining won. And THEN we said "but we're ignoring the remainer win as that wasn't a majority of all voters"

You'd be beside yourself with rage (even more so than now)

My view on Brexit and Tory govt is 'fuck them.' --- those that voted for either

I voted remain and labour to help look long term and support the less well off.

If they think they know better then crack on. I'll be fine.

I’m sick of hearing about those mysterious non-voting voters and how they would have swung it for Remain

Complete misinterpretation of what I said. I’m sick of hearing the majority voted to leave. They didn’t. 63% of the electorate didn’t vote to leave. That’s plain and simple fact. It’s not conjecture about how non voters might have voted.

It’s done now but I’m incandescent that my life is being fundamentally and irrevocably altered without my consent. And I’m entitled to that anger.

I think when people say the majority voted to leave it should be taken as a given that they mean the majority of voters who bothered to vote. Because like I said, they are the only ones who matter. There is zero point in discussing the people who didn’t bother to vote.

Well, I don’t accept it as a given. It’s a blatant lie. The majority didn’t vote for. Just own it and stop pretending it’s what most people want. Because it isn’t.

@lasttraineast

Except if we go back now our old boss might take us back on the same cushy terms. If In a year's time our self employed gamble hasn't paid off we'll be begging for a minimum wage foot in the door.

Just own it and stop pretending it’s what most people want. Because it isn’t.
It's what most people who voted wanted.

And if it all turns to shit it will be their fault.

Also that is a truly pathetic response. Don’t you understand how referendums and elections work? Actually don’t bother answering that. It’s a complete waste of mental energy trying to reason with you in much the same way that it’s a waste of mental energy trying to reason with a tired and emotional three year old.

Bottom line is that Brexit has happened and if you want to spend the next few years of your life being apoplectic with rage about it, and arguing the toss about things that you can’t change or control then all you are going to do is give yourself an ulcer.

You lot keep starting these threads to lure us out and then getting all furious and indignant when we say exactly the same things we said on the last thread you started, then you have the gall to accuse us of gloating. 🤷🏻‍♀️. What is is with you lot? Do you just enjoy being kicked while you are down?

No, we haven’t changed our minds because so far there has been no reason to. Ask us in five years time and by then we might have an idea of whether it’s been worth it or not. In the meantime go and do something
more productive with your time instead of rehashing old and pointless arguments.

Maybe stop telling people to "get over it" and "move on". Might help.

I'm channelling my anger into the campaign to rejoin. I'm mid thirties, I'm hoping by the time my DC are my age we'll be firmly back in the EU and I can leave my DC a better legacy than a working life filled with relentless uncertainty.

I don't see that wanting people to take responsibility for taking a gamble on behalf of us all is unreasonable.

I am more than happy to take full responsibility for my Leave vote. I would vote the same way again.
And the large majority for Boris at the election should tell you that most people in this country wanted to leave. He campaigned on "get Brexit Done".
Yes, I own it.

Don’t you understand how referendums and elections work?

Of course I do. I’ve voted for the UK to be part of the EU in two referendums, 40 years apart. I see you’ve now resorted to personal insults which immediately discredits anything you might have to say.

I hope you see a return to the EU in your lifetime sunshine. Sadly I’m too old for that and am immensely sad that I’ll have to live the rest of my life in the chaos my generation is largely responsible for.

Great Sunshine that’s the spirit. Channel your energies into something that you think is useful.

Although to be fair, we only tell Remainers to ‘get over it and move on’ when they persist in arguing over it and starting threads asking us to respond to endless questions along the lines of:

Have you changed your mind? (No)

What are your reasons? No they are not reasons, they’ve been debunked (by who, exactly?) give me different reasons.

What do you perceive are the benefits? No, those aren’t benefits, give me different benefits. I’ve decided those benefits aren’t really valid.

Why are you so racist? (Most of us are not, but it doesn’t stop you all throwing the word around because you think it shuts down the argument.)

Who is going to wipe the bottoms of our elderly and pick our cabbages?

(Who did those jobs before freedom of movement within the EU?)

So it’s little wonder that nearly four years on and still having to answer the same questions even now it’s done, we might occasionally be moved to say GET. OVER. IT. AND. MOVE. ON.