Aibu - requiring consent of deadbeat exh to travel

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I've just returned from a holiday in the Netherlands with Dd who is 4. Her father and I split when I was pregnant, divorced shortly after her birth, his contact is sporadic at best as he us an alcoholic. He has never paid any child maintenance. On both entering and leaving I was asked did i permission from him to travel with her. I have never been asked this entering Spain, Italy, Greece. Several days ago and I am still so upset/ angry about it. I understand they are trying to prevent child abduction and I didn't explain my situation to the immigration officer. I am going to ask my exh for a letter of consent to travel with her as I can imagine it's only going to get worse leaving the EU, but it does seem to me endemic sexism. I cannot enforce any reciprocal child maintenance claim/ order because I am resident inn the Uk/ British and he is Dutch, but the Dutch authorities exoect me to get his consent to travel with the child I provide everything for?
I'm planning to take her back to the Netherlands, with a letter of consent. If I make this point at immigration next time am I likely to get in trouble. Am I being unreasonable to feel so affronted by this? I'

Then @Hollyhobbi she'd be committing a crime. Unlikely to get stopped, probably, but personally it's not a risk I'd take.

At best it'd mess up your holiday, at worst you could be facing prosecution for child abduction - not a slap on the wrist offence!

Actually, it’s likely you benefitted from sexism. Had you been a father traveling without the mother’s explicit permission, you might have been significantly delayed.

I only once took the dds away for more than 28 days, the divorce set out they live with me, & ex had them every other weekend...so it appears You don’t need permission if you have child arrangements and trip is less than 28 days

Sexism to be questioned but I agree it is inherent sexism that a man can be allowed to be a total loser parent, play zero role in a child’s life and fail to provide or contribute financially BUT still must be given some consideration over the physical whereabouts.
I’m using the term sexism bc it’s generally a woman who is the sole parent when one of them parents is a useless entity (usually being a man).
Yes men are stopped too, men travelling with their lone child would be subject to the same questions however the very % of those men having a tosspot ex Mrs who has zero to do with their child is going to be considerably lower - hence women are impacted more.
Agree with the PP who said there should be ways to retract parental responsibility when it’s suitable

Not* sexism to be questioned ^

ivykaty if you’ve got residency then you’re fine for under 28 days.

I got stopped a lot as a kid. My parents were dead. I explained this, they verified it, I was asked who I was travelling with and where to, and we were let through. I can’t say I relished the experience but I am fairly used to telling people my parents are dead, it comes up for official stuff occasionally.

I think places are getting more strict these days, whether Brexit related or otherwise. They’ve always been reasonable with me (although I’d imagine that if somehow they suspected or found out you’d fraudulently written a letter, that’d change pretty drastically!)

Last year we returned on a ferry from Cherbourg to Portsmouth, DH and I are married and we all have the same surname on our passports. Customs asked my DS6 and DD5 who we were to them! Unfortunately we had just had an almighty argument/tantrum from DD so DH and I were a bit as we were not sure what would come out of her mouth next. Not sure what Customs would have done if she had disowned us then but thankfully she claimed us as her parents

I understand the reasoning behind the questioning, but my children would be really upset if strangers at the airport started interrogating them about their Father. They don't interrogate them, they ask them, you would be standing there, no threats, no bright lights in their eyes. Think how upset they would be if they were abducted.

A couple of other things which have occurred to me around this thread.

Firstly, what's the legal position when the absent parent isn't themselves resident in the UK or the other country you're visiting? Are you still supposed to get a letter from them allowing you to take the children out of the UK?

I also looked quickly at the Residency Orders which allow up to 28 days travel and read the experience of some MNers. The outline guidance on the gov.uk page (sorry - haven't had time to read anything more detailed if there's background PDFs etc.) says that to apply for the order you must already have tried mediation. Is this mediation to get the the absent parent to write a consent to travel letter instead? How can you have mediation with someone who is an absent alcoholic, as in OP's case? If they're either not there, or not capable of writing a formal letter, then this would be a bit of a nonsense. Or would you just have to demonstrate the problem to the court and give evidence when applying for the order?

No. There are deadbeat mothers too, quite a few in fact (without talking about proportions...). There are ugly custody issues that go either way and authorities have a responsibility to know that a child is appropriately and legally accompanied. Go prepared and you'll have no issue. Court order with sole custody, birth cert, whatever applies, or yes - a letter if need be. YABU, however annoying it is.

That’s the man you chose to be your child’s father. It’s not a good idea to refer to him as a “deadbeat” on public forums that she can see when she is older. That’s her father. At one point he was everything you wanted. Your feelings may have changed about him but he will always be her father.

It’s the law and has nothing to do with Brexit. You’d be glad of the law being there if you were one of the parents whose children have been the victims of an attempted abduction by the non-custodial parent.

BritWifeinUSA - You think OP's username is traceable, that all MN forum activity will still be on an accessible IT platform in 10+ years, and that OP's child might stumble upon this one day by accident and recognise her family?!

If someone is a deadbeat parent then this is a good place to use that particular word. IRL, in front of the children, I'm sure most of us just stick to "your father".

@BritWifeinUSA - no, like all survivors of domestic violence, no that was not who I chose to become my child's father, that was the ma I married, not the secret alcoholic who then became violent to me when I became pregnant. That was not the person I chose and that is why we are now divorced. He is a deadbeat, which I will refer to him as on an anonymous forum as out of respect to my child I don't discuss his failings in front of her, and given the nature of alcoholism and bring a survivor of emotional and physical abuse I find it very hard to trust people to discuss this with openly.

Regardless of wether people think this is right or wrong .. it is the law.

If your child has another parent with PR (either through being named on the BC or because he has established this right through the court) then you NEED either a Child arrangements Order that states the child lives with you and that you are allowed to take the child abroad for 28 days OR a letter from him /her giving explicit consent for the child/ren to travel.

This is not something to fuck around with and trust to luck. Removing a child overseas without consent leaves you open to an extremely serious charge of kidnapping/child abduction. Not to mention the extreme upset of the curtailed holiday if an immigration officer wanted to stick to the rules.

Two years ago my brothers neighbour was refused boarding with her 2 very excited dc who we're heading to Disney land . It was so sad. Bastard ex was called from the airport and told they could board the flight if he sent an email and a copy of his passport. He refused. They weren't allowed to go.

You can also apply to the court for a specific steps order if the other parent refuses.

Please don't risk it.
It's there for a reason.
Would any of you want these inadequate absent parents to be able to skip out of the country with your children, should they have a couple of days contact , without being challenged?

What age do you have to stop bringing letters of consent?

My ex and I had a court order whereby both of us could take children abroad for 2 consecutive weeks at a time. This ended when my son was 16.

I was wondering that. If I'm travelling with the aforementioned 17 year old whose father still has PR, surely that couldn't be an issue? Maybe I'll send 17 year old through with older sibling and not be in a group. Could it really happen up to age 18?

I travel a lot on my own in Europe with DC and have never been asked.
Someone said it's the law. The law in all countries or the Netherlands? If it's the law in all European countries it certainly hasn't been enforced.

Generally 4 times out of people don't have an issue getting accross borders without the paperwork. The way I see far too many parents snagged is when the nrp reports them for going as legally it is child abduction. Obviously most sensible parents wouldn't do it but when they do it causes a massive problem

From the government site linked it looks like you could get a Child arrangement order and travel without a letter for 28 days.
Do you need him if you go to court to get this?
I've only been stopped once, in Canada, we were transiting through. I had the boys with me and Dh had dropped us at the airport and gone to work. I offered his work number and they could ask for him, but they said no it's OK, just get a letter next time, and let us through.

I think it's the law throughout Europe but Netherlands are particularly keen on enforcing it, not been challenged in Mediterranean countries..

I have a deadbeat. Just get a Child arrangement order and you don't need consent.

You dont need to do mediation either

www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce

You just agree on where the child is to live, your travel tickets will give the indication of whether you’re returning within 28 days

I'm a single parent have been off 15 years ,the kids have almost no contact with him.We have travelled all over Europe,America and Australia,probably 50 trips and have never been asked if I have permission to take them out of the country.

For the Netherlands all you need is a form (and possibly birth certificate) to show. It’s quite simple to sort as long as your ex is willing to sign. Schiphol airport is just a bit more organised when it comes to checking these things. I think the UK has the same obligations and I have stood behind a woman who was asked similar questions about her daughter when coming in to the UK.