Having children to take care of you in old age

[ThatsNotMyCherry]

I want to know how to articulate why this is is wrong.

In recent years as her kids have flown the nest my mum has started going on about this a lot. She’s always saying how parents do so much for their children when they’re young so it’s their children’s duty to do the same when they’re old. I think she believes that in every relationship you should get back as much as you put in. She’s been a housewife her whole life and in recent years does a fair bit of care for her own mother. She tells me about people she knows who are unwell but their kids are busy working and raising their own families. Obviously neglecting your parents when they’re old isn’t right but people have their own lives and are entitled to live them. I think part of the problem may be that she’s never had a life outside of caring. When I tell her I don’t expect this from my children and want them to have their own happy, fulfilled lives she says I will only understand when they grow up, leave and then need them.

Some of us make it work in real life.

True, but a lot of people cannot especially due to finances (or having other caring responsibilities, particularly of children with SN). As a general expectation, it's not really compatible with the more transit society and very high cost of living we have.

Of course it isn’t but it does happen.

Sure, but saying "families should look out for one another" implies that everyone should, and that those who don't are somehow less.

Lots of people cannot afford to give up work in order to look after elderly parents. They have children and a home to run and simply cannot afford not to work full-time. Many couples are already working around each other because they can't afford childcare, let alone cutting hours further in order to help their parents too.

You don’t have to give up work to look out for and support them. I managed it with a full time job. 24/7 care is a different ball game.

Urgh! Don’t get me started on this. My dB still lives with dm and he does so much for her. I can only help so much with having dc. She’s become far too dependent on him. It’s constant. He works full time, gets home, cooks dinner, sorts her out for things, takes her to some appointments, takes her shopping/gets the shopping, wakes in the night with her. I try and chip in with appointments during half term, but having dds there’s only so much I can do. We did go clothes and shoe shopping for her and picked up loads of stuff which she was really happy with.
I don’t want my dds doing this for me, I want them to put me in a home.

You don’t have to give up work to look out for and support them. I managed it with a full time job. 24/7 care is a different ball game

I agree. But I wonder if some of these judgy posts like "I managed it" or "kids should look after their parents" are referring to the odd bit of shopping and help getting to appointments which I agree is doable when working.

I was referring to 24/7 care though where you cant even leave the parent at home on their own due to dementia and out of fear they'll accidentally set fire to the house by leaving the gas on or they'll wander out the front door never to be seen again. Not quite so easy to be blasé/judgy about that kind of care.

Some of us make it work in real life.

Good for you (polite clapping).

Yeh I make it work. “ slow clap “ trying to convince my demented self funding mum that the lady coming from social services to fill in the care assessment might need to know she has had a diagnosis and I’m not not condemning her to the nackers yard whilst my six year old hid in the hall way with his hands over his ears has been my weeks particular caring highlight .

Look I realise everyone’s circumstances are different and when it got to three 4am phone calls a week it was untenable. But when it was shopping, laundry, organising and managing carers, managing the finances and taking for appointments it was knackering but possible.

I’ve already said 24 hour care is a completely different ball game and that was when I accepted defeat. I did it because I loved them and I also completely understand that not everyone has that relationship.

Just because I disagree with some of you I don’t deserve a pile on.

also I'm not sure it's a pile on, but maybe that so many of us start out doing the life admin and then things change. When my mum started having the odd fall at 80, I would not have imagined the trauma she (and therefore we) went through 8 years later.

When someone has one fall, and is still a little bit mobile, you can help them back on their feet and into a chair, make a cup of tea, have a chat etc.

When they have an absolutely catastrophic fall, are a deadweight, and you are on full ambulance alert 24/7 for a good few years before that, then it's a different ball game.

I know that yolo and I’ve said that three 4am phone calls in a week triggered the end. I understand that, I really do. But the life admin, while draining, is possible. 24 hour care isn’t.

And I think slow hand claps and sarky comments are out of order.

I'm about to have my 3rd girl, and older women have been commenting to me about how lucky I am as girls will apparently look after me better in my old age than boys would have. The thing is I would never expect or ask this of them. It's not why I had children at all.

I have longevity in my family but also good health. So fingers crossed I follow in their footsteps and can live at home well into my 90s.

I think people got upset @Alsohuman because the OP had said that I don’t think for my parents it’s really ever been questioned that their children would visit regularly or do shopping, appointments etc. I think what troubles my mum is that we won’t be able to give her the same level of support she gives her mother - she visits her every day for 2-3 hours

Your comments that families should look out for each other and ‘making it work’ came across as supporting that level of care.

In reality, you we’re talking about the behind the scenes helping and social support that many of us do offer.

So just a misunderstanding I think.

sorry also I didnt mean to sound patronising. But it's the whole boiling the lobster alive slowly isnt it? People generally want to help their oldies, but you can suddenly up in much deeper boiling water than when you did their Tesco order once a week or organised a gardener. And the transition from being a 'helper' to 'oh fuck I cant do this' is very shocking for everyone involved.

I think whatever you feel now about not wanting your children to help you when you are old , will change when you are actually old. My late mother said her own mothers life was “ ruined” by looking after her elderly mother and no way would she be doing it or expecting me and my sister to.
She didn’t give one minute of her time to my lovely nana. Something I was dad about even at a very young age.
In her 70’s and 80’s she became increasingly demanding of my local sisters time and refused outside help until the last year. I travelled 400 mile round trip twice a month but wasn’t good enough.
I’m saying the same to my adult children, 2 of whom live permanently abroad. However my local step daughters are appalled at the thought of not looking after us in our old age so everyone is different and will think differently at various stages of their lives
I’ll be happy to have their company and pay careers for all the rest when I’m infirm.
But will I still be saying that in 20 years time when I’m in my 80’s?

Carers not careers

I helped looked after my Nan in her old age and my mum as she got worse with her disability and then sadly we lost her, but was absolutely expecting to look after her as she grew older (wish I got the chance) she however did not expect me to do a thing, I chose to. She was a great mum so I wanted to help.
I have another Nan who is a narcissists and emotional black mailer, she will not get my time anywhere near as much.

I would absolutely hate to think of my son putting his life on hold or feeling burdened by me. I want him to be living his life full of great experiences. If I play a part in that great, I have done my job right, if not that's also fine so long as he is happy.

And the transition from being a 'helper' to 'oh fuck I cant do this' is very shocking for everyone involved

Yes- very well put. Plus many people already have guilt that they physically cannot look after their parents when it gets to that point so to hear others imply that they did it with no stress at all is bound to make them feel inadequate and that they are somehow wrong to find it stressful.

Also there is a huge issue for people in their 40s/50s who are the “sandwich generation” caught between kids and parents. People are having kids later in life and are therefore caring for both their own young children and their elderly parents at the same time. That’s absolutely exhausting and it’s no wonder this generation are feeling mentally and physically drained by it all. Literally everything is on their shoulders.

And the transition from being a 'helper' to 'oh fuck I cant do this' is very shocking for everyone involved

Yes it is. And when you have to concede the battle, the guilt and sense of failure is hard to live with.

my solution...when they get to mid 70's just go dark for a decade or emigrate, then re-emerge 10 years hence when they've moved themselves into sheltered accommodation & sorted things out themselves:)

I think in an ideal world you get back what you put in and if your mums life has revolved around care giving I completely understand why she would want that to be reciprocated to her in her old age.
Of course there are practical and emotional limits to what you can do but I would like to think as a family that love each other we would do what we can and sometimes that may mean making sacrifices.
Obviously 24/7 high need care is a completely different kettle of fish but doing what you can, whether that's taking to hospital appointments, shopping ,cleaning or just company and day trips then I think we should do what we can.

And its also difficult when you have teens/young adults too. They don't need you physically, but mentally!!

My SIL absolutely shocked me, she was having a go at me about my apparent lack of care for DM. Then she told me that her 3 girls helped bathe her mum every other night from when the youngest was about 12.

To me, that is absolutely not on. What a burden to put on teens. It's one thing to deal with a crisis, which my girls did, but helping bath granny every other night? No way.

Thing is it's not easy to just choose to go into a care home, most where I live are around the 3 thousand pounds a month price!!
So the house has to be sold to finance care and that means there is no inheritance to leave.
DH and I are planning on dying early enough to not be a burden to our DC and to be able to leave them a decent financial amount.

That’s outrageous Yolo. Absolutely unfair and totally inappropriate.

Those poor girls, Yolo

Yes also it was very bad. I do actually love my SIL, but that was below the belt - and there is no way I would EVER have expected my DDs to be involved in their grandma's physical care unless it was an absolute crisis, of which there were a few (falls related rather than shit related, to be clear).