To think that most people voted to leave the EU to stop freedom of movement?

[Moomin8]

The proposed new rules the government have supposedly set out that are designed to keep out 'low skilled' workers seem to me like social cleansing. Most recently , when people moan about 'immigrants' they are always talking about people from Eastern Europe in my experience.

What really annoys me is that almost all leaver voters deny repeatedly that their vote had anything to do with the fact they wanted freedom of movement stopped.

Sorry if this has been done to death. But why won't people just be honest?

IMO one of the key reasons the vote went the way it did was because of the Remain's poor strategy to basically saying "vote Remain or be racist" - a line I head word for word on the BBC during the run up to the election.

They might as well have said "we are not willing to hear about anyone's concerns or engage in any debate at all, we just want to shame people into voting how we want" and in doing so, they left peope who were uncomfortable FOR ANY REASON no option but vote Leave.

I will never forgive the Remain campaign for fucking it up to such a degree and hold them responsible for some of the shit we are in today.

Until we learn to behave like grown ups able to have reasoned political debates without resorting to insults we will continue along this trend of pshing peope further and further into the extremes of their leanings - further left and further right, further global or further national, further outward or further inward, etc.

@ LittleBoyJuly2020

"The same government that advertise British benefits in Eastern European countries, enticing people to come, for no reason at all."

Adverts? They couldn't claim benefits here unless they have a right to reside. To have a right to reside, they need to be working. So no-one from Poland, say, could come over here for the benefits.So what would be the point of such adverts?

Did you read the Daily Express and believe it?

@PorpentinaScamander I live in an industrial town so we have a lot of Eastern Europeans who come and do a lot of the labour. Friends who recruit say no one local (native ) even applies for these jobs. God knows what these companies are going to do.

@victoriashleigh My area voted leave by a small margin. I think it's been shown that areas who have high immigration have mostly integrated into communities (or where they haven't, been tolerated and shown to at least contribute). Toleration is higher in these types of areas because they've had to get used to the changes. Areas (like mine) where immigration is a "new" concept are a lot less tolerant. When I grew up I was one of a handful of people who had a parent from outside the UK.... I was one of THREE visibly not white children in my year. 3 kids out of 200! People don't like change, that's all it is.

I'm officially British even though I left the UK as a teenager years ago (I was not eligible to vote in the referendum as I have lived outside the UK for so long). Currently saving up to apply for a different (eu) citizenship to attempt to keep the same rights as the rest of my family have. Its crap. And there are ALOT of unemployed and retired British here. I am currently in third level education here too. Still can't believe brexit actually got voted in.

@Mordred No, I've been to Poland 8 times in 7 years and have seen it with my own eyes. I have a Polish sister-in-law, she's well educated with a great job and also thinks immigration here has become a joke.

@LittleBoyJuly2020

Odd, I've been visiting Poland at least once a year since 1995 and have never seen them. I'll ask Polish friends if they know anything about it. And my Polish DW.

It just seems an odd thing to advertise if no-one would actually be entitled to have them unless they're working and have the Right to Reside.

I cannot understand why we are importing unskilled labour whilst we have ANY (other than transient/churn related) unemployment in this country

The jobs and the people might be hundreds of miles apart. The jobs might require working hours that are incompatible with public trasport, or childcare, or other caring responsibilities. Some of those jobs might require DS checks, which some umeployed people won't be able to pass. Some people have health issues, addiction issues or mild learning disabilities which make employers reluctant to employ them but aren't severe enough for them to remain on disaility benefits.

Just because people are unemployed doesn't mean that they can do any unskilled job that happens to be vacant.

@Youcunnyfunt I completely agree with you but I guess what baffles me is that immigration is not a new concept they having to grapple with because it’s not just happening there. No one is moving there (British or otherwise!). It’s pretty much the exact same demographic as it was when I grew up there 20 years ago.

I can almost understand when towns believe they are dealing with mass immigration and are coming to terms with it because it’s different and people don’t like change. But I find it really hard to understand in the case of my hometown, it’s like they’re scared of something they never have to deal with.

I can’t talk for anyone else but I can talk about this from within my own family. Big widespread family. I’m the only remain voter. I’ve been with them, eating out, a disturbance arises and the immediate under breath comments are “fucking foreigners” “thank fuck for Brexit” type thing. This DID NOT happen in my lifetime before Brexit. Now they say this shit. All of them. I then go through the whole “err excuse me. How do you know they’re foreigners? They may have been born here?” conversation time and time again but I get nowhere. It’s all the “fault” of the foreigners. They also don’t get that the “fucking Nigerians” in their words aren’t going to be “sorted out” by Brexit. It’s utterly ridiculous and makes me feel hugely depressed about the way this country is going and the stupidity that is now evident and blatant.

While we were still in the EU we had the second highest birth rate in the EU but it has been declining- lowest in a decade

I think you are right and it has an awful lot to do with freedom of movement and I don’t see why they should be nervous about admitting that, unless they don’t have the confidence or the debating skills to argue with the idiots who claim it’s racism.

I think freedom of movement has been great in some respects but utterly disastrous in others. For the UK, overall, it’s not been a positive experience all things considered.

Whether or not it’s an act of social cleansing, well that’s a matter of opinion I suppose but I don’t care what anyone else thinks. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Does it matter if it’s social cleansing? We have a duty of care to our own poor and disadvantaged, not to everyone else’s.

I make no apologies for only wanting foreigners in the UK who either:

a) beneficial to us financially
b) beneficial to us socially
c) are completely financially self sufficient and have private medical provision
d) are net contributors to our system, not net beneficiaries, especially if they are in low skillled work that could be done by someone already already living in the UK.

This is how most of the rest of the world works. I don’t feel ashamed about wanting the UK to work that way too.

I dont believe an open door immigration policy is a positive

But we don't have an open door immigration policy now. We have a reciprocal arrangement with 27 other countries.

funny enough I had a conversation with a British Indian friend of mine and asked why she was voting remain "because Im the descendant of a migrant family"....is India in the EU?! Ignorance works in both directions.

"because Im the descendant of a migrant family" might simply mean that she could appreciate the benefits of a welcoming multicultural society and felt that would be better preserved by staying within the EU. Did your British Indian friend actually think India was in the EU, or are you just making a clumsy attempt to show ignorance where there was none?

OP, how is it ethnic cleansing?? We are encouraging anyone already here to become settled regardless of who they are - we're not kicking them out fhs!

But we don't have an open door immigration policy now. We have a reciprocal arrangement with 27 other countries yes and when all countries were pretty similar it made sense. People flowed equally between any 2 countries. The 2004 (and beyond) expansion has caused this mess.

“ Did your British Indian friend actually think India was in the EU, or are you just making a clumsy attempt to show ignorance where there was none?”

This.

I don’t believe in freedom of movement. That doesn’t make me anti immigration or anti immigrants. It makes me anti uncontrollable immigration and I think it right that any govt of any country can determine the numbers and types of immigration

What I would like to say is those people who are saying who are going to look after the elderly and wipe bottoms, why do you think importing people is a good idea?

I have had several experiences.

1. After a hip replacement, when I was groggy on morphine, the night Health Care Assistant had almost no English. Trying to communicate my need for a bed pan with her was very difficult. It wasn’t a situation I should have been put in.
2. I attended a Rheumatology Appointment with a room full of elderly Nofolk people. It became immediately obvious, that the Rheumatologist could neither speak nor understand English properly. He was dangerous.
3. I had a consultation with the Well-being Service. I am deaf and the heavily accented Greek Lady was almost impossible for me to understand. It didn’t make me feel very good.

Elderly, sick and confused people should not be being subjected to Carers/medical staff who lack the ability to communicate with them properly.

This idea of an army of East European care workers is not quite so good when you are on the receiving end.

I shall be for every grateful for the ethinic minority Nurse in the same hospital where I had my hip replacement, who was about to go and do something, but looked across at me after my first period out of bed, and decided returning me to my bed was more important.

It very often isn’t about ethnicity, it’s about communication.

Now call me a racist and a bigot.

I don’t agree with letting unskilled immigrants in. Why would you when we have so many unemployed as it is?

I guess the point that I was trying to make is that Britain has exported plenty of its own low skilled workers around Europe! I'm really not sure how brexit is going to affect the freedom of movement if you are British but don't live in the UK. Already I cannot apply for the eurasmus scheme unlike all the eu students in my eu college.

Removing unskilled immigrants means there will be the unskilled jobs around so they can't claim there are no jobs. There might just be no jobs they choose to do - which is different - and I hope it no longer becomes a choice.

Conversely, only allowing skilled migrants enables the UK to continue with its failing education system. British nationals can do the crap and lowly paid jobs. Anything that requires a bit of education, skill, or training (and a higher salary) can be done by foreigners. Honestly, for all the apparent 'pride' Brexiteers have in their own nation, they have a pretty low opinion of its citizens' aspirations and abilities.

I had an automatic right to apply for college here as an eu citizen. I still have a year to go on this course and was hoping to go for a masters too....... There are British people all over Europe taking advantage of their rights as European citizens, what will happen if the rest of Europe follows Britain's lead?!

When I moved to UK (have moved out since) j couldn't understand why UK didn't require registration of EU citizens after 3 months like majority of EU countries does. I feel like that would have been helpful with finding out those looking for benefits.

My problem with the latest system is putting a price on unskilled workers. When I was looking for work in the UK. I don't consider myself unskilled (maybe I am?) But a lot to jobs paid less than the suggested £23k and required university degree.

Absolute rubbish that non-EU immigrants take out more than they put in as stated by a PP. Non-EU immigrants have to jump trough a 100 hoops including their partner having to earn a set amount before they can live here and have no right to public recourse for some time.

I hope you’re not conflating non-EU migrants with refugees?

what will happen if the rest of Europe follows Britain's lead?! they have every right to do so. Its not a god given right to live and work in any country you wish.