to end my marriage over this?

[poopbear]

The way my DH talks to me and our kids. I get that people lose their temper and get frustrated etc but I feel like I’m always having to be the referee (if anyone understands that?). I’m also having to be a “Pollyanna” all the time or I’m accused of being “moody” or “needy”. Yesterday we went out as a family to do an activity and DH was so stern with our son that he made him cry. Our son has anxiety issues and is a very quiet, introspective boy and he gets upset/moody if he loses at any game he’s playing. This is a huge trigger for my DH who then starts “stomping” and talking in a moody/bully voice with stern tones in order to “buck him up out of it”. It’s then left to me to mop up the mess. I’m then a recipient of DH mood/looks because I’m “babying” him which has obviously caused this issue in the first place (according to him). This isn’t the first and only time. This is a constant theme. If the kids aren’t jolly happy/good losers etc then DH acts out. That’s fine but what about me actually? The whole scenario ruins my day and I’ve been poking up with this for years. I want to know if this is normal on family outings with young kids please as I have nothing to compare it to. Is this a normal thing (bravado man not knowing how to discipline in public thing). Am I BU and do I just poke up with it until kids are older and through all the phases and if this is the worst I have to put up with then I’m doing alright. It is just causing me huge anxiety because when we go out I’m on eggshells. If one of the kids collapses with a moody face then my heart sinks because here we go. How does everyone else handle it please if your husbands/partner has made your kid cry in public?

So, whatever either one of us said/did was never negatively commented upon by the other.

Surely this only works if both of you are decent, reasonable people. Shouting in a child's face until they're hysterical isn't reasonable.

Your DH sounds like a bully. He’s probably the reason your DS has anxiety issues. Protect your kids OP.

I would ask DH to go to therapy along with your son

I wouldn't do this as H is emotionally abusive and it's not a good idea. Your DS won't want to open up in that situation.

We both agree that the most damaging thing for a DC is for them to see any chink of disagreement between their parents - you must present a united front at all costs. We obviously do/did disagree fairly frequently on parenting issues, but always discussed it in private.

I don't agree with this at all. Firstly the H is undermining the OP, telling her off and having moods, so this isn't on her. Secondly kids aren't that stupid - if they can see one parent is behaving unpleasantly and nonsensically, it doesn't help to pretend you agree. That's just both their parents gaslighting them and making out it's OK.

You can be more delicate and flexible about it. You don't have to tell your DC that H is an out and out bastard. But you can listen to their complaints about him and acknowledge how his behaviour makes them feel, and agree his behaviour isn't always perfect, or that he was a bit grumpy etc.

Surely this only works if both of you are decent, reasonable people. Shouting in a child's face until they're hysterical isn't reasonable

I'm not suggesting for a minute that its reasonable - but it needs to be addressed away from the DCs.

FWIW, our policy had an indirect benefit in that by the time we did come to discuss whatever the issue happened to be, we had both calmed down and could discuss it rationally.

Contradicting the other parent in the heat of the moment and in front of the DC is a recipe for disaster...

How old is your son? To be fair, I'd find it very annoying too if a child couldn't cope with losing.

What are things going to be like when your son is older? The teen years might make this 100 times worse.

My husband is generally ok but he can get angry at pointless stuff such as other drivers or some random person looking at their phone when they are crossing the road. They might be actual annoying things but my husband gets properly ‘cross’ at them. (Like Victor Meldew🙄) Our adult kids love him but they all avoid going out with him. If my husband had taken his anger out on them when they were children then I doubt he would see them very often. As it is they enjoy his company but I can see that they all ‘manage’ their interactions with him.

If my husband had taken his anger out in the kids then I really hope I would have left him.

OP, I’d seriously consider leaving him. What happens when you both retire? Do you really want to spend your life with someone who is such a jerk. I’d rather be single.

Also, you really, really have to think about your responsibilities to your child. You are ‘allowing’ this to continue by continuing the marriage? What happens if your sons MH issues continue or get worse? Will you be able to tell yourself that you truly did everything possible to help him. It’s a really difficult situation and you have my sympathy.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that its reasonable - but it needs to be addressed away from the DCs.

I couldn't stand there and watch my child be emotionally abused, and calmly discuss it 'later'. I think that's insane.

@okmaybenot

When parents undermine each other in front of DC, it creates uncertainty in their world. It also opens the possibility of the DC being able to play one parent off against the other.

In an ideal world, no parent would ever lose their temper/shout etc, but I definitely think a DC being shouted at by a parent is 'less bad' than allowing that DC to see cracks in the parental united front.

We both agree that the most damaging thing for a DC is for them to see any chink of disagreement between their parents - you must present a united front at all costs. We obviously do/did disagree fairly frequently on parenting issues, but always discussed it in private.

While I think this works in general - there are times when a child has to know that someone has got his back and is on his side. To think that his father is being unkind to him and that his mother agrees that he (t he child) is rubbish (which is the impression that would give) would be so undermining to the child and horribly detrimental to them - and they would also feel that there was no-one that they could ever take their problems to. This will cause big, big problems the they are older and under severe peer pressure, or being bullied - or just having problems coping at school.

Every child needs someone who s/he can go to, who won't criticise or interrupt and who will always validate heir experiences and their feelings. It may be that those feelings are inappropriate, but only someone they trust will be able to help them see that.

My dd used to struggle losing. I had to tell my dh not to win against her all the time. He was brought up to always lose until he was good enough at a game and he finally won and thought it should be the same with dd. We started by playing a game she loved with a period of her always winning. Then slowly we’d win more regularly. At 11 she sometimes asks me not to do x as she doesn’t want to lose.

Idk how old your children are. Perhaps look for games, where you can have 2 teams to soften the blow. Try googling games, where everyone wins.

As for my dh. He goes ott and gets way too angry. Idk where the anger comes from. I’ve started making fun of him so he can see how ridiculous he’s being. So as soon as he starts to get upset, I say to dd, daddy’s going to explode in a minute. We laugh and it seems to be defusing the situation.

What I’m saying is instead of catching the tension, laugh it out and eye roll if you can. There’s too much anxiety flying around in your family but if you can push back and refuse to catch it, your husband will have to feel it himself. Right now, what is happening is that he finds his emotions scary and doesn’t like feeling out of control so he’s throwing the hot potato elsewhere.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I do take your point, but OP has made no effort at all to remedy this in the manner I have suggested.

I'd probably agree with you that, if after say 6 months of private parenting discussions, they have been unable to bring their parenting more in line with each other, then yes it is probably time to call it a day for the reasons you suggested.

Probably also worth bearing in mind that if they were to split as OP suggests, then at lest EOW, the DCs would be subjected to their DF's rages completely unchecked.

It's got to be a better idea to at least try to resolve things before jumping into a divorce?

I agree DCO - a divorce should never be entered into lightly, especially where children are concerned, but sometimes the good of the child demands that s/he is supported emotionally.

@DCOkeford I totally disagree with all of your points and FYI, I have tried that and tried it with joint counselling and private counselling and while that has improved things, when somebody screams at your child, in public, to “keep their mouth shut” I ain’t being on the defence team thanks. I’m absolutely for joint parenting and supporting the view of the other parent and have done countless times in relation to things like TV off now it’s bedtime etc and when that’s delivered firmly yet sensibly. When the other parent has lost their cool, is adult tantrumming and showing off in public, why should I support that? I’ve played down man-sized tantrums and adult showing off for decades. Smoothed waters iced with upset friends too. I’m the fucking Master in joint front but at some point there’s a line in the sand

@Mummyoflittledragon good, sound, sensible advice. Thank you

a DC being shouted at by a parent is 'less bad' than allowing that DC to see cracks in the parental united front
So it's better that a child is the butt of a parents anger and is given the impression that that's OK cos the other parent is on board with it than a parent protects a chd from a bullying parent? Nonsense.

Whether or not you divorce, both of you need parenting classes and family therapy; and the kids need counselling separately.

There's no point in divorcing without taking positive steps to change the family dynamic; or you will just be repeating the same behavior patterns in different homes.

Putting on a united front with a bully who shouts at a child with a diagnosed anxiety disorder is a horrible thing to do. The child must feel quite desperate no-one is on their side or will protect them from shouty angry daddy.

I see lots of men losing it when out in public (I've seen lots of lovely kind parenting from dads as well) including abusive behaviour. Often the woman is silent/says something and is shut up.

United parenting is for situations where parents are reasonable and no-one is completely out of control. This is not the case here and it would be terrible for both parents to gang up on this little anxious boy just for the sake of a united front. Don't unite with horrible shouty men- either tell them to get parenting classes, not to treat their own kids like that and if that doesn't work leave them.

Poopbear having read your update, you have tried years of counselling and years of putting up with the adult tantrumming. I think you know what the next move must be, in your heart.

He deliberately only engages in competitive activities and if thry kids aren't thrilled to lose, he's a sulky bully. You're married to a prat

And he's a prat that won't be told. You can try very firm boundaries. "we're not playing badminton because you shout when we do, we're going to an art show" "I'm taking the kids and leaving any event if you tell any of us to shut up". Which I suspect you can't do because I assume the behaviour is wider reaching than you've written about there.

Or leave.

If you want to leave him, do it. You don’t need permission and to ‘stay for the kids’ is insane in my opinion as a child of divorce. By far the worst times were when they were trying to make it work. I was so happy when we could all move out of that toxic house.
Having said that, I used to have tantrums as a child, in fact I was a little shit, and used to get my legs slapped accordingly and sent upstairs etc. Best thing my parents did for me as I still get called a ‘princess’ as an adult so pretty sure I’d be a monster with no friends if they let that go unchecked.
No parent is perfect and you can only do what you feel is right at the time, I’m sure you’re doing your best!

A united front is useless with an abusive twat, because what they really want is you sucking up their abusiveness and backing up their shit.

@poopbear

...so it looks like you've decided on divorce - so would you take your H to court with a view to supervised contact only? Do you think you'd win?

Greta I am also a child of divorce and extremely grateful for it! I wish my mum had divorced earlier. I still have contact with my dad but am glad my family home is a nicer more peaceful one.

This is not acceptable and you are not unreasonable to find it unacceptable. This will harm your children - and you.

If you want to save the marriage, get him to agree to counselling/therapy and to make and sustain change. If he can't or wont' - leave him.

I had a family member who used to say I was spoilt, moody, mardy, cried too much and too sensitive, got upset over nothing, poor looser, etc etc. She used to strop when I got upset.
Guess what she was the only one I was like this around. I was cheeful, smiley, easy to get on with and willing to help and play with the rest.
She was a bully, always had been and was till the day she died.
I bet the kids anxiety improves when he's not home, and you all get on fine till he gets in.