to end my marriage over this?

[poopbear]

The way my DH talks to me and our kids. I get that people lose their temper and get frustrated etc but I feel like I’m always having to be the referee (if anyone understands that?). I’m also having to be a “Pollyanna” all the time or I’m accused of being “moody” or “needy”. Yesterday we went out as a family to do an activity and DH was so stern with our son that he made him cry. Our son has anxiety issues and is a very quiet, introspective boy and he gets upset/moody if he loses at any game he’s playing. This is a huge trigger for my DH who then starts “stomping” and talking in a moody/bully voice with stern tones in order to “buck him up out of it”. It’s then left to me to mop up the mess. I’m then a recipient of DH mood/looks because I’m “babying” him which has obviously caused this issue in the first place (according to him). This isn’t the first and only time. This is a constant theme. If the kids aren’t jolly happy/good losers etc then DH acts out. That’s fine but what about me actually? The whole scenario ruins my day and I’ve been poking up with this for years. I want to know if this is normal on family outings with young kids please as I have nothing to compare it to. Is this a normal thing (bravado man not knowing how to discipline in public thing). Am I BU and do I just poke up with it until kids are older and through all the phases and if this is the worst I have to put up with then I’m doing alright. It is just causing me huge anxiety because when we go out I’m on eggshells. If one of the kids collapses with a moody face then my heart sinks because here we go. How does everyone else handle it please if your husbands/partner has made your kid cry in public?

yanbu op. Your ds seems like a sensitive boy and so is mine. You need a very different approach parenting a sensitive child while teaching them to be a bit resilient. My dh is simply amazing and so patient with ds. We do alot of role playing and teaching him while doing this. Ds is 4 though.
So ds gets upset if he doesnt grasp something quickly. So we do roleplaying showing him what to take out of the situation.
It's so important to acknowledge their feelings and work with the child that you have. My ds is doing so much better. He comes from school and is so chuffed with himself to tell us how he handled something like we practiced at home.
Your dh approach is only going to alienate your boy.

Mine used to be a bit like this before we managed to talk it through. I'm not an appeaser though. Things we did as a family that were successful were:

Swimming
Cinema
Camping (not in winter and with gin and friends!)
Geocaching
Dog walks
Adventure playgrounds
Pottery cafe

And the being an angel at school thing - my youngest is the same, but the effort of masking her true self meant we sometimes bore the brunt at home. They just can't keep the same level of behaviour up. And nor should they have to. But it does explain why things feel so unfair at home.

I would suggest that him being happy at school will be because he's not at home treading on egg shells in case his dad talks to him like crap.

I would suggest too that part of the reason your DS has anxiety is BECAUSE of his father.

You're not relaxed and content either are you? what does he say to you?

I had a friend who had a H like this, the tone he used all the time was passive aggressive, chippy and off hand. the kids in turn talked to each other like that, and the mother who ran herself ragged sorting everyone out got it from them and from him too.

It was an AWFUL atmosphere to spend any time at all in. I'm sensitive to abuse as I lived with an abuser for years and I can tell someone's mood from the way they open a door, or their footsteps on in the hall.

That environment is toxic for kids, and for anyone for that matter.

You wanna leave your H? get the financial stuff checked out and make sure you are going to be ok and make it happen

I think a few people here are zoning in on the son getting upset when he is losing and not addressing the fact that he is also like this with OP, so much so that she has to be "Polyanna."

OP, I would suggest that he is the one who has trouble dealing with emotions. Negative emotions and the expression of them can be important - I don't mean tantrums, but it is healthy to say that you feel sad today and explore that. The constant expectation that negative emotions are suppressed is not a healthy model for your children. Nor is screaming at them.

My father was strict and angry and it has damaged me. I cry when anyone shouts around me as it takes me back to being a helpless child. I also have anxiety as I spent years walking on eggshells. I also struggle to express negative emotions. He was the same with my mother, she always had to put on a happy face or he would flip out and start complaining and or shouting.

I don’t know if I can buy into your view that you sons behaviour isn’t disruptive to the other families or children around him. If he is getting help at school it will be because he was disruptive. This would impact on the other children. That’s why he is getting help.

As parents you both need to accept he behaves this way. That there may be interventions that work and ones that don’t. Your joint Or combined intervention doesn’t work.

Splitting up won’t resolve that for your son.

I think I'd approach your dh from the perspective of 'your way is not working', i mean surely even he can see that shouting and bullying someone is not going to cheer them up (it's like that old joke - the beatings will continue until moral improves).
I'd be finding activities to do that don't have a win/lose outcome to do as a family.
Is your ds still having therapy? Can you ask the therapist to see both you and your dh to talk through strategies that will support your ds?
What happens when your dh takes your son out on his own? Does he handle his meltdowns then, or do they cone back early? Not necessarily suggesting this as a solution, btw, just interested.

*come

@poopbear Let me tell you that my husband is 75, and his sister is 73. We laugh about how long it will take for any conversation to get round to their father, who was just the same as your husband. He didn't physically abuse them, but mentally he did. My husband has been affected all his life with feelings of lack of self esteem, caused by his father's treatment of him. Having to walk on egg shells around him. It was so bad that my husband left home and joined the RAF at 16, but by then the damage had been done. Please don't subject your son to this harm any longer. Things were so different 70 years ago, it wasn't easy for my poor mother in law to leave, or to stand up to her husband. If you were my daughter, I'd want you to leave.

OP you may want to look into finding some games that are co-op rather than competitive like Forbidden Island and such. That way nobody wins or loses against the other, everybody wins or loses as a group. It might solve some of the issues at least, I hope.

No you most certainly would not be unresonable to end your marriage because of this. You son is probably anxious because he's shit scared of your DH kicking off. I left my marriage for this reason (well one o them) because I got tired of walking on egg shells, tired of telling DH not to do anything to make his dad cross, it really is no way to live. I left mainly fo my DS's sake, it's no way for a kid to grow up and believe me, it will follow him into adulthood if you carry on with that scenario.

My ex was like this but wouldn't listen. Hence he's an ex, both DC have MH issues. Ex also hated it when he didn't win, made things more not less anxiety inducing.

I understand being in a situation where you feel you have to manage your partner's mood, on top of managing the situation which has caused your partner's mood to deteriorate. It's essentially as if they cannot manage their own mood like an adult, so you end up having to manage the child, the fall out, and the adult. I pull mine up on it all the time, and he gets it ("you are the adult, please act like it") but it's just a skill some people don't learn when they are growing up (mine was indulged at work for decades where to some extent, poorly I suspect, it worked) and if this is your only complaint, I would persevere trying to get him to work on it.

How old are your children? There is a big difference between a 4 year old who acts up when not winning and a 10 year old. (Not judging - I have a 16 year old who still struggles - though she is aware of her trigger points and simply refuses to play games because she knows she can't cope with the competitive element).

Yes my DH managed to change too. He was following his own DF's rather poor example. His DF has also managed to change in later life. Only you can decide if your DH can change and if your marriage is worth saying. But after divorce he will still be your DCs' father.

"If he’s then shouted at it makes that a lot worse and it descends into him becoming hysterical. So what am I supposed to do in that scenario?"

You're an adult. So is your husband. Your son isn't. Maybe it's about time you and your husband realised that your child isn't an extension of either of you, but a person in their own right. Your husband is a bully, but actually? I think you might be worse. You like the attention a crying, distraught child brings you, because you feel validated by other parents clocking you comforting them. You like the drama, you like the tears, you like the pity of strangers.

"Why is it always me that has to mop up that situation?"

Because you chose to marry a bully and have children with him. You reap what you sow, OP.

It's your children I feel sorry for - not you.

My ex was like this. His behaviour escalated, and my DS was injured. My DS's anxiety (because he was anxious for years too) although initially did get worse for a while is so much better - everyone comments that he is a different child.

Obviously you may decide to work through this together if he acknowledges that there is an issue. People can and do change. However you and your DS do not deserve this life. Being constantly on edge, the "walking on eggshells" will have long term effects on the health and wellbeing of both you and your DS.

Op do you ever wonder why your kids get moody/annoyed when things don't go their way ?? Monkey see, monkey do

I'm failing to see the link between anxiety and going in a mood if he doesn't win is linked.

I hate this - my ex is a bit like this and it certainly was a factor in me leaving (one among many though).

The hypocrisy is breathtaking - everyone else has to be positive and cheery but he can be a grumpy arse to try to control you all. Not on.

Not allowing DC to have a a natural range of emotions and responses, and to be anxious if that's what they're like, is very harmful. It will make them feel guilty, and try to repress their feelings instead of dealing with them. It's well-studied and understood that we need our emotions to be heard and validated - not in a mollycoddling way, just acceptance, and then you can encourage a child to think about ways of coping, cheering up etc.

Your kids have you and you do validate them so it's not that bad, but his treatment of them is crap. I'd give him a few parenting books to rad, explain this to him etc but honestly I'd be put right off him too.

I causing me huge anxiety because when we go out I’m on eggshells

And your son has anxiety?

Can’t you see the link here?

I think it’s your DH that need therapy

This X 1000!

Your Ds has anxiety because he's grown up in a household where his father is having temper tantrums and his mother is having to walk on eggshells.

My dh was like this for a time when he was very stressed at work. I gave him an ultimatum- he went and sorted his job out or we seperated, I was not going to allow my dc to be yelled and be afraid of their father. Dh did sort his job out and went for some therapy- a lot of childhood stuff came out- DH's father used to yell at him, swear at him, humiliate him in front of his friends and was generally a terrible father. Dh is now a different person.

OP you need to protect your son- your H is an adult and needs to go and sort himself out.

Your DH sounds vile and he is a bully.

He's also a hypocrite. So it's OK for his to get all upset and moody, but not the kids?

He's an adult and supposed to be in control of his emotions. The kids are still finding their way. And they are probably just copying him.

If he's making the kids cry I'd be booting him out. They're probably living on eggshells too, and that's a really horrible way to grow up (and it will damage them).

It's wonderful not living like that.

Of course your DS needs to work on being a bad loser, but that won't happen if he's just slapped down and made more upset. I don't know how old he is but some kids take a while to get to grips with it (and some adults struggle too tbh). You can help him with this but not if you're all living in fear of your H's moods.

I agree with HairyDogsofThigh. @Poopbear, you clarified in your reply to JKScot4 that your son has a diagnosis of anxiety and is getting treatment for it. Good for you for recognising that there's a problem and getting your son help. Can your son's therapist suggest resources or help for you and your H, or the whole family, to support your son? The anxiety diagnosis is a game changer, in my view. I understand your H's instinct to teach your son to be more resiliant, tougher, etc - but it's not so simple when anxiety is involved. And blaming you for causing your son's anxiety suggests maybe he doesn't understand anxiety.

As for what's normal - well, you go on family outings to enjoy spending time together as a family. In this case it sounds like you, your H, and your DS are all unhappy on a fairly regular basis - and if there are other children, they're probably not thrilled either. There are some great suggestions already in this thread for family activities, and I'd ask the therapist for more suggestions. Is there some kind of activity where your family is part of a larger "team" and you feel like your contributing, but not with an immediate win/lose verdict - maybe some kind of local volunteer work?