To get dejected that my wife doesn't do anything for me?

[obstinatrix]

I've been with my wife for 13 years. We're a lesbian couple. She jokes that we're Chandler and Monica, with me being Chandler, and that's fairly true.

The thing is, she doesn't do anything to make me feel special. I get that I'm quite traditionally butch so it may seem as if I fall into the "husband" role and therefore she thinks she doesn't need to, but -- you straight women do so much for your husbands! I know this to be true! And also, I'm butch, I'm not a man. I think she forgets this sometimes. She also doesn't exactly adhere to other traditional m/f roles, like doing all the housework. In fact, she doesn't do any housework because she doesn't like to "get dirty," so it's up to me to take the bins out, change the cat litter, vacuum and clean the toilet.

I don't normally get emotional but on Valentine's Day just past, I got a bit sad at the realisation that she's literally never given me anything to mark the occasion. I gave her a card, which I always do. For the first three years we were together, I sent her a massive bouquet of flowers, but her response was so consistently lacklustre and confused that I stopped. I assume she isn't interested in gifts, really, because she has never got me anything for my birthday or Christmas, either, in all the years we've been together. I have got her something every time, even if just a nominal something. She doesn't ever seem embarrassed in the sense of "you've got me something and I haven't got you anything." She's never been stimulated by my actions to reciprocate.

Am I being unreasonable to feel a bit unloved? I know gift giving isn't everything, but in terms of "love languages," I do all the acts of service in this relationship, as well as all the giving. I just don't understand how it hasn't occurred to her that I might want some attention.

Angelssins she’s referring to the cultural trope of the femme/butch lesbian relationship dynamic in which one partner fulfils the outdated masculine gender role, not the gender roles themselves. As a gay woman, I would hate to be in a relationship like that and they have been on the decrease for some time, but it is still very much a thing in lesbian culture. She clearly states that she does not see her relationship with her wife as such but that as she presents as butch she feels as though that is expected of her. She also clearly states that her wife does no housework at all. Nowhere does she say that she thinks her wife should do all of the housework or even most of the housework, she is pointing out that she does nothing. In lesbian butch/femme relationships, often the partner who fulfils the outdated female role will do the domestic stuff. Her point is that she is being expected to bring everything to the table here and that her wife doesn’t even do anything around the house to help out.

Op can't afford to leave her. Do she's in the unfortunate position that many are: having ti stay because can't afford to leave.

Oh, come on - can you imagine a woman in a heterosexual relationship being told 'oh, he doesn't value you and you're desperately unhappy? Well, if you can't afford to leave, then you're stuck aren't you?'.

OP, if she's been this way for 13 years, she isn't going to change, so if you're not happy, leave and give yourself a short at actually being happy.

The house is a red herring - yes, it might be hard and messy financially to leave, but don't let a building be the reason you're trapped in marriage you don't want to be in..

Thank you to everyone who's understood the point I was trying to make about gender roles, i.e. they're bullshit but they are a common thing in lesbian relationships and I don't want to be treated according to them, but I worry that I am being.

She isn't a horrible person and she shows me affection by complimenting my appearance, hugging me and sex. It's just that she doesn't employ any of the methods which I have told her are what make me feel loved. If anything, I am the one who is a bit aspie and therefore it's important to me to be shown love in concrete ways, which we have discussed, but she just doesn't do it.

The reason I haven't left is complicated. She moved to this country to be with me, has no friends, has no interest in having any friends and doesn't drive. So I feel she is very dependent on me. I have tried to break up with her several times over the years, despite this, and she always cries and tries to convince me that actually we're great together (which in some ways we are; we like the same things and I love talking to her). Once I successfully got her to agree to a separation and moved into the other room, but she after a while just started to behave as if nothing had happened and it's my fault really that I allowed this. I just feel so responsible for her.

Until I can actually move out, I know nothing will change. But also, would that even make me happy? I can't face the idea of trying to meet someone new, it's all just so tiring. As I have been straight with her, I'm not depriving her of an opportunity to meet someone who really wants to be with her; I've put it to her this way before and she's just said "but I want to be with you." Probably because she knows nobody else would put up with her.

I don't know why I even posted here, I know it's obviously a crap situation and I should leave her, but not being with her doesn't sound any better than being with her. So it's as if I might as well try and improve the relationship as is, iyswim.

When I’ve previously been in a long-term female/female relationship we both did housework/cooking/cuddling...little inexpensive gifts too. To show we care. I do all of these with my husband too, again we both do.
A good relationship is one where both feel respected, cherished, cared for and appreciated. Both give their strengths and both are accepted for their foibles. I get the impression you don’t actually feel as if your wife holds you in much regard? You need to talk to her.

Well, it sounds as if sex and compliments are her 'love language', as she's not interested in presents, either giving them or receiving them. You either take that or you leave it, I suppose.

Also, you still sound confused about butch/femme stuff, gender roles and housework -- you seem to be complaining that she behaves as if she thinks you're a man, but then that if she thinks you're a man, she should be doing all the housework? Which makes no sense.

And I think you have some weird ideas about housework being a relationship 'act of service', when it's just chores related to a household you both live in, to be shared equitably. You changing the cat litter or doing the vacuuming isn't doing her a favour, it's just something you can hire someone to do if you can't arrive at a fair division of chores.

But this is all irrelevant, as the relationship sounds deeply unhappy. You can't continue in a relationship with someone because you feel sorry for them, they can't drive and have no friends. You say you find the idea of trying to meet someone new 'too tiring' but meeting someone new isn't compulsory. Wouldn't you be happier alone?

Prime:

"Oh, come on - can you imagine a woman in a heterosexual relationship being told 'oh, he doesn't value you and you're desperately unhappy? Well, if you can't afford to leave, then you're stuck aren't you?'."

You are so very wrong. You only have to look on MN Relationships board to see loads of threads where people can't afford to leave. Heterosexual relationships.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what sexually OP's relationship is.

@MuscatelGrapes, I don't know if I'd be happier alone, but she'd definitely be more unhappy, I'd be worried about her and we'd both be financially worse off.

OP I love being single - do you need to look for another relationship? OK I don't get little tokens of affection from a partner - but as we can see there's no guarantees anyway.

It sounds as if things aren't right at all anyway, and I can understand you needing to vent. I'm not sure this could be solved by her giving you presents etc. anyway.

I don't think it sounds like a stereotypical gender roles dynamic, but more like a parent/child dynamic (and I've been there! - with a male partner as the "child"). If you have some time alone you could spend time on self-care (sorry cheesy but you know what I mean, doing what you like, thinking things through etc) and having a break from relationships - and then you'd be ready for a healthier relationship if and when that chance comes up. I don't mean this judgmentally at all as I've been there

You can't spend your life with someone just to prevent them being unhappy - honestly. It won't make either of you happy.

@LadyMadderRose You're so right, it is very often a parent/child dynamic. I think what annoys me the most is that I am almost always expected to be the parent, but then she sometimes tells me off as if I'm a child -- "be careful with that," "stop biting your nails" etc.

Does she work OP?

@TatianaLarina Yes, we earn about equal amounts.

So she’s not completely dependent, although I agree this is basically a parent - child relationship.

What is the reason you can’t sell the house and split, each taking your share of the equity with you?

She sounds selfish. What happens at Xmas when you give her a present and she doesn't give you one? No-one says anything? You need to speak to her about this. She does sound selfish in general though, I would look at moving out if I were you, you deserve better

Also your not responsible for her - she's a grown up

It does seem extraordinary that after 13 years of being bought Christmas and birthday presents she never took the hint.

I’d just stop buying her presents for a start.

@OldEvilOwl there isn't anyone around to notice or not notice, since it's just the two of us! We used to go up to my parents for Christmas but have stopped doing that because it's always a shitshow -- partly because my mother doesn't like her, but much more because my mother is an awful person who's always disliked me (a completely separate issue).

I have occasionally missed wife's birthday just to see what would happen and nothing did. She genuinely isn't bothered. Also, her parents don't really send her anything for her birthday so I genuinely think it's largely the fact that she was brought up in a family where gift-giving wasn't important. It's just that I cannot seem to get it through her head that it IS important for me, despite having spelled out the fact that if we aren't at my parents' house for Christmas, it's depressing not to have anything to open. Honestly, I need to stop expecting her to change as she obviously isn't going to.

Honestly, I need to stop expecting her to change as she obviously isn't going to.

Agreed, OP.

On the Christmas thing, though - just buy yourself some nice things that you want. I don't get presents from my immediate family as I'm a single parent with ASD teens, so I tend to buy myself the nice things I want - it's great!

The reason I haven't left is complicated. She moved to this country to be with me, has no friends, has no interest in having any friends and doesn't drive. So I feel she is very dependent on me.

She is a grown adult. You're not going to fuck her over when you split. Her choices to not make her own friends are exactly that and she is not your responsibility.

Why are you talking about you moving out? Both move out, sell, split the revenue.

I don't know if I'd be happier alone, but she'd definitely be more unhappy, I'd be worried about her and we'd both be financially worse off.

It sounds like you're staying together out of pity on your part and manipulation on hers, with a side-serving of convenience. It doesn't seem very healthy.

She's obviously happy to carry on like this, and no she's not going to change. Get the house sold, split the money and go your separate ways. Your life could be completely different 12 months from now, or it could be exactly the same. That is up to you to make it happen.

It sounds like you're quite determined to stay with her.

Maybe you need to buy yourself presents if you're that bothered about having something to open - order something online and choose the giftwrap option!

Buying things for myself isn’t any good because it’s not the presents I want — it’s her wanting to buy them for me. But as you point out, it’s all a huge smokescreen for the real issues.

I want to leave her but thinking about the reality of it makes me feel hopeless.

I want to leave her but thinking about the reality of it makes me feel hopeless.

Why hopeless? You’re not dependent on her financially, you must have some equity in your house? What is it that is making you feel trapped?

@TatianaLarina I can't imagine we have much equity in the house, since we only bought it last year! It's also our first house, and the thought of going back to renting makes me want to off myself.