To get dejected that my wife doesn't do anything for me?

[obstinatrix]

I've been with my wife for 13 years. We're a lesbian couple. She jokes that we're Chandler and Monica, with me being Chandler, and that's fairly true.

The thing is, she doesn't do anything to make me feel special. I get that I'm quite traditionally butch so it may seem as if I fall into the "husband" role and therefore she thinks she doesn't need to, but -- you straight women do so much for your husbands! I know this to be true! And also, I'm butch, I'm not a man. I think she forgets this sometimes. She also doesn't exactly adhere to other traditional m/f roles, like doing all the housework. In fact, she doesn't do any housework because she doesn't like to "get dirty," so it's up to me to take the bins out, change the cat litter, vacuum and clean the toilet.

I don't normally get emotional but on Valentine's Day just past, I got a bit sad at the realisation that she's literally never given me anything to mark the occasion. I gave her a card, which I always do. For the first three years we were together, I sent her a massive bouquet of flowers, but her response was so consistently lacklustre and confused that I stopped. I assume she isn't interested in gifts, really, because she has never got me anything for my birthday or Christmas, either, in all the years we've been together. I have got her something every time, even if just a nominal something. She doesn't ever seem embarrassed in the sense of "you've got me something and I haven't got you anything." She's never been stimulated by my actions to reciprocate.

Am I being unreasonable to feel a bit unloved? I know gift giving isn't everything, but in terms of "love languages," I do all the acts of service in this relationship, as well as all the giving. I just don't understand how it hasn't occurred to her that I might want some attention.

You're not unreasonable, obstinatrix. There are many spouses who feel as you do, it's very disappointing. Please do explain to your wife how you feel but - you must surely know the answer to this - does she love you? It beats me but you'd be surprised at the number of partners, really in love, who just don't bother with cards and gifts and aren't demonstrative.

As long as you have a fairly happy life together and love each other, a compromise can be reached. Only you and she will know if it is worth the effort.

Good luck and please tell us how you get on.

(Er, not all straight men kill themselves)

I get it OP, you're trying to understand why she treats you so horribly and clutching at straws.

Unfortunately she is just a selfish wanker.

Wankers can be male, female, straight, gay.. they're everywhere!

Force sale of the house, take the money and escape. Yes it will be a horrible 6 months but it will be worth it.

Or else what's your plan here? Just stay living with someone who treats you like shit, forever?!

Have you communicated ANY of this to her? My partner and I don’t give each other presents or celebrate valentines, but we like it that way (for birthdays/Christmas we use our joint account to go for a meal and buy whatever we want for ourselves). I told my partner I like flowers occasionally, he told me he hates to buy them because he sees them as a waste of money, so if I really feel like flowers I buy them myself. I hate cleaning the bathroom, so he does it. I cook all the time, so he does the dishes. I do all home admin, he cuts the grass and takes out the rubbish. At some point all of this has been discussed (in a 5 year relationship) that we are both happy. I didn’t vote because I think YABU expecting your wife to know you would like a birthday gift and valentines card without you saying something about your disappointment. But YANBU to want more balance in your relationship. At the end of the day, it’s nothing to do with gifts. It doesn’t appear you and your partner enjoy your time together at all. It’s very sad. Why do you stay?

I'm struggling to see what you're getting out of this relationship, OP. You sound understandably unhappy.

What's this ADHD stuff? I could see that as an excuse if, 2 weeks after your birthday, she suddenly goes "oh SHIT" and that's when you end up getting your birthday present. But not to not do it at all. ADHD means you can be a bit absent minded, it doesn't mean you forget the entire concept of birthdays.

You’re not in a partnership of equals, and if anything being a SS couple should have at least made that easier! Being butch has nothing to do with it, she’s not cherishing you and your feeling it.
DW and I spilt most stuff 50/50 according. To the time we have and our like dislikes.
And as for not being able to afford to leave - you’re going to have to. Sell the hse, get a flat or a house share and start moving on with your life. Do not let a house hold you back anymore...

Op I think your issues are are bigger than Valentine's Day or gifts. I understand your hurt though my exh was like this sometimes.

You mentioned you've tried to leave but can't, why did you feel that way?

What on earth attracted you to her in the first place? There's a lot of kind souls out there but people seems to go for the nasty ones and then stay with them. It is also possible to survive on your own financially whether you think you can or not. Test yourself. And maybe give a nice person a chance next time - was there anyone who spurned in favour of your wife? Cos they're usually the softer, good souls.

My sister is the less girly one in her relationship. Yet they definitely both make the effort with each other. I joke because when I go there they are both on a cleaning spree and I say how handy it is to be a lesbian and have another female to help clean!.

what I was saying was that if she's determined that i don't need affection because I'm "the man," that isn't really borne out in our other roles because I do all the housework as well.

Despite your contention that you're not making this all about gender roles, you are. I'm straight - my male partner appreciates affection because he's a human being. I think you need to shift away from the idea that you or she should be doing something because that's your assigned m/f role. Concentrate instead on what you, reasonably, want. You're not happy in this relationship. So, can you talk to her and change it? Can you find a way out? Or put up with it the way it is? Those are your basic options.

Millions of us do get by on our own. Money isn't a reason to stay wit her if you're unhappy.

I have been happily married to my husband for 23 years. On Valentine's Day I totally forgot and was taking one of our teens to school. We stopped at Starbucks and luckily someone mentioned it there. So after I dropped off my son, I stopped at a shop, bought a card and a heart shaped box of chocs and "surprised" DH who had the day off. We are not necessarily into gifts but it's always nice to be remembered. My husband and I are always telling each other we love each other, and doing small and big gestures of kindness as well as having a good laugh so that we both feel loved. I am actually pretty crap around the house, I keep it relatively tidy and clean but I am not the greatest cook, and DH does WAY more housework than me. He definitely doesn't fit gender stereotypes. I am recovering from cancer so unable to work right now, so frankly on paper I don't offer much! What I do offer is a lot of love, loyalty and total dependability. DH and I are invested in our marriage, no way do we ever want a divorce so we don't take each other for granted.

OP have you ever done the "Love Languages" test online? It helps you find out the ways you like to receive love. It sounds like gifts are important to you as a clear sign you are loved. My mother in law is the same, she loves to give and receive gifts more than the average person I would say.

I think your marriage sounds pretty dreadful. I don't see what you are getting out of it and you wife is not making the smallest attempts to show her appreciation. You can't have a relationship where you are doing all the work, you deserve so much more, we all do. I would recommend books by John Gottman and his wife (forgotten her name). They are professors at the University of Washington, Seattle and have studied marriages (both gay and straight) over many years in their "love lab". They have learnt so much about marriages that they can take a newly-wed couple and ask them to discuss a contentious topic and tell within 88% accuracy (or something ) within 3 minutes if that marriage will survive. They have a list of Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, four attitudes/behaviors that are toxic to marriage.

Anyway, that's probably irrelevant because it doesn't seem you have a marriage here! You know, not only have I had cancer but so have two of our kids (everyone is fine!) and yet our marriage was strong through it all. We are best friends and we respect and love each other a lot, we are just not "mean" to each other, and if one of us is fed up we figure out what's wrong and problem solve together. I don't think our sexual orientation has really anything to do with the success of our marriage. You have got to want it to succeed. We don't take anything for granted. I really hope we stay happily married forever but I can't know the future. It seems after 13 years your wife has established a pattern of giving virtually nothing to the marriage, I find it hard to believe it will radically change. One thing I read that I find helpful is for each of you to look at your marriage as a "thing" so you say "would this holiday be good for OUR MARRIAGE?" "Would OUR MARRIAGE still be ok if we get a bigger mortgage?" etc. It stops you bring too ego-centric.

The way you are treated is being conditioned by what you have allowed her to get away with. Open a line of communication and tell or write to her what you think should be the way forward. If she doesn't want to get her hands dirty, get her to do a cleaner bit and make sure that she does it i.e. pull her weight.

It sounds like you're angry inside, but this is a time wasting exercise, Write the nitty gritty that makes you unhappy down and communicate and make sure you don't bottle it up and get angrier or more discontent as day goes by!

I agree with others. End it. Dont endure it.

Im another straight woman who left her unloving xh.

She sounds pretty awful and totally thoughtless. What are you actually getting out of this relationship? I know there’s a much smaller dating pool when you’re gay (I am too) but you can do much better than this.

She is no respect for you, life isn't a hearts and flowers but decency and respect are free. There are many a straight couple, when one is lazy and entitled.
I'd rethink if she is who you really want to be with.

It's quite clear what OP meant with regards to gender stereotypes. There are a lot of posters trying to find things to have a go at OP for, something I've noticed happening a lot on threads recently. She wasn't saying women should do the housework ffs.

OP quite clearly says just because shes 'butch' doesn't make her a man. She thinks her partner doesn't do these things because she thinks of her as the man in the relationship. However straight women still do things for men, ergo it's not a reason.

It's not that difficult to understand.

Op it sounds like your partner is pretty shit. Have you spoken to them about how you feel? How do they explain why they haven't got you a birthday present

Apologies for the long post! Here is John Gottman explaining the keys to successful marriages

I do sympathise - i think some women in ssr are still looking to position themselves within the heterosexual gender roles with themselves as the 'princess' or whatever who needs looking after and their partner as the one who runs after them taking care of them "like a man". I recently had a lucky escape with an OLD who gradually revealed herself to think this way. I'm not interested in being anyone's 'man'.

YANBU in wanting more loving behaviour and a better relationship as this seems very onesided and unkind. But your ideas of what M-F relationships are, are firmly stuck in 1957. Don’t go looking there for your examples.

OP doesn’t appear to have those ideas about gender roles - I think people are misunderstanding the butch/femme dynamic that is in many lesbian relationships. A butch partner who presents as very masculine and fulfils all the old fashioned male roles and a femme partner who is the ‘princess’ and is basically waited on hand and foot is a common type of lesbian relationship (it really is - I know a few couples like this. It would do my head in but each to their own), although I don’t think it is seen as much these days. What OP was pointing out is that although she is butch, she does not see herself in the role that I have described and does not want or expect that sort of relationship.

Have you cinsidered relationship counselling?
Do you want it to get better or do you think you are done?
There must be a way of splitting up and maybe renting the house till its sold or getting somewhere smaller or in a cheaper area?

When you say you can’t get out financially because of the house what does that mean? Surely you can both sell the house and you take your equity out.

Your roles within this relationship (you describe them as male and female) are irrelevant. Look at her actions- what do they say to you? to me, they say she is selfish and has no concept that a relationship takes care and nurturing. You really need to TELL her all of this and see how she responds. Its not unreasonable to want your partner to make you feel special- if they cant do that, noone else will!

I don’t think you’re doing yourself any favours by assigning this gendered thinking to your relationship.

“Because I’m butch like man she thinks I don’t need affection”.

“Even though I’m butch, I clean toilets.”

It’s just - weird. I don’t mean that in a horrible way but it’s not healthy thinking, I don’t think.

It doesn’t sound like you feel valued or loved and who could blame you, really? It sounds pretty grim for you.

I don’t know if I missed the memo about straight women doing a lot for our husbands! But I am affection toward him and by him gifts and more importantly, I show that I love and appreciate him, as he does with me.

I’m sorry it’s so shit for you.

I assume she isn't interested in gifts, really, because she has never got me anything for my birthday or Christmas, either, in all the years we've been together.

The key word here is "assume". Have you asked her?

She's never been stimulated by my actions to reciprocate.

Have you asked her to reciprocate?

if she's determined that i don't need affection because I'm "the man,"

But has she really determined that? Is that what she said? You said "I'd love some flowers for Valentine's day and presents on occasions, it would make me feel loved" and she said "you don't need affection because you're 'the man'"? Or words to that effect?

Or is this just you guessing, trying to come up with an explanation for her unkindness?

in terms of "love languages," I do all the acts of service in this relationship, as well as all the giving.

Then which are her love languages? A big part of the love languages idea is to talk to each other about the love languages you each use, and getting each other to understand and use the others.

Or if she doesn't use any love languages for you then maybe there simply isn't any love.

I have tried to leave her on several occasions and it's never worked because I've never been financially able to leave the home.

Then it doesn't sound as if you really love her either. You're together because it works financially.