AIBU to think Labour have lost the plot

[Gin96]

Dawn Butler on Good Morning TV saying babies are born without a sex, has the world gone mad!

www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1243758/Labour-MP-Dawn-Butler-Richard-Madeley-sex-baby-ITV-Good-Morning-Britain-GMB-latest-video

It’s frustrating when the only positive choice a feminist can make in Labour is to vote for the male candidate.

The truth is, the vast majority of the population of the UK doesn't give a shit about this either way.

They really don't.

So much energy being expanded on something that will blow over in a couple of years.

If the vast majority of the population don't care about this issue, why are every single one of Labour's leadership candidates wasting so much oxygen on it?
When are they actually going to come up with a credible attempt at opposition?

The left is mostly concerned with Rights issues. Gay, women, race, trans.

Trans is highly dangerous. A problem with (adolescent) search for identity - in an already narcissistic world - has been politicised and medicalised. THIS IS INSANE. People are seeing surgeons when they should be seeing therapists and going on their own personal journey. Usually towards being gay. Yes, I will speak up! People are already reporting that lives do not get better. Suicide rates (correlated with identity issues) are not improved. The lawsuits in the future in the medical fraternity on this issue are going to be huge.

This is a culture war. Too much self deception going on. We not thinking and talking about these issues. It is outrageous that careers are lost on this. When actually, MAINSTREAM THINKING follows the person being hounded.

How have a tiny minority of virtue signallers given themselves this much power? When in actual fact, life in this country is more equal than it has ever been. They need to be pushed back against.

There is a wonderful book about this problem in Western society: The Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation as a Basis for Social Policy.

The author examines several of the 'liberal left's' Social Justice projects using US census statistics and concludes that they leave society worse off. Yet, the 'liberal-left', who are a minority but who are disproportionately represented in politics, the media, the judiciary, in education etc; are oblivious to any discordant feedback that their Vision is not working, and insist that the solution is MORE of the Vision. More state funding, more 'war against poverty', more sex education, more understanding of criminals. What is this about??? It is about [the population being required to agree about things that are NOT TRUE]. Insanity. To be strongly resisted.

Live and let live, but DON'T tell me what I should think, and DON'T shut me down when I articulate what I think. How can people not see the fascism in all this?

He concludes: 'the West is sleepwalking to disaster'.

Brexit is a symptom of this discordant feedback to the knowledge of the (previously silent) majority. So is Trump. So is the rise of the AfD in Germany.

So the virtue signalling snowflakes weaponising their emotions and the Good Intentions really need to quieten down. This is bullying mob rule. YOU ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE. You are a tiny minority. Shut up and go away.

Don't bother screeching horror and outrage - I am completely immune. Facts and reason trump emotions and good intentions. This new generation 'think' they are different and special (from people of the past) - but they are not.

Screamingladysutch I totally agree

I have just finished reading Keri Starmer’s 10 pledges. He must not have got the memo that Labour are focused mainly on identity politics.
Push to devolve power to local areas, Green New Deal, common ownership of our basic resources and so on.

I've just scanned through his whole site
at first glance could find no mention of trans stuff
am encouraged

Aren’t the Tories all for self-ID too? It seems like there’s a strong cross party consensus on this.

@Lycidas
From what I gather from these boards and elsewhere, the Tories were the ones that introduced it and have now, after seeing the response to it, have halted all plans to push it forward and have stayed silent on the issue ever since and have let the other parties come forward to claim stance and hold the torch and getting ridiculed and burned by the general electorate for doing so.

@ScreamingLadySutch

Great post. And even your opening paragraph sums it up, about gay, women’s and racial rights opposed to trans rights. The first three are about equal rights and people that disagree with them are basically saying they don’t agree with it. Trans rights, intentionally or not, trample over other rights and people that disagree with it aren’t necessarily saying that they don’t agree with it (though I’m not naive enough to say some people will base it wholly on this) but believe that people can’t change sex and certain places should be protected by sex. It’s not the same thing and I’m furious that the T has been allowed to piggyback and eventually hijack the success of the gay community, but more furious with myself for once championing it, thinking I was being open and accepting and anyone that didn’t was being unkind and anti gay

Great post
I agree screamingladysutch made a great post but I didn't get the same impression as you when you say

And even your opening paragraph sums it up, about gay, women’s and racial rights opposed to trans rights. The first three are about equal rights and people that disagree with them are basically saying they don’t agree with it.

It's not that everyday Labour voters don't care about Gay or racial rights or that they disagree with it, but that the LP now seem completely obsessed by them to the detriment of everything else, especially their old class politics, but then the LP are all middle class now anyway, so I guess they're just not concerned.

Yes minority issues are important but they are still minority issues and people, of all racial and sexuality groups, are sick of hearing their constant whining about it. Sick of being lectured to that they're a massed blob of homophobic and racist wrong thinkers who are in need of re education.

Someone posted links up thread to the Morning Star, the old class war branch of the left, who now are also growing tired of their fringe virtue signalling to the bourgeois gallery, inside their theatre of echo chamber bubble. It's must be bonkers in there, ping...ping back...ping...Its a bonkers bunker, with no doors or windows, where no light can ever come in and the exterior is covered in rotten fruit an tomatoes, gleefully flung by the oooop norf northerners, but their irrelevant show to themselves on the inside goes interminabley on.

It's sad, I suppose, that their former voters are pissing themselves laughing and that they still don't get it, and no they do not read the replies, (that ratio though) under their twitter drivel posts. How could they and still be so out of touch. Master of leadership candidate puppets Corbyn, who must be the worse thing that has ever happened to the LP in the whole of its history, is still there! in parliament standing as opposition leader as if nothing has changed! as if the thrashing they received in the GE never even happened. What a mess. Hopefully they will implode soon and something entirely new will fill the space left behind

Flaxmeadow love your phrase 'growing tired of their fringe virtue signalling to the bourgeoise gallery'.

I've no idea why Labour are taking this stance on transgender issues.

Maybe the madness of red corbyn and his extreme left wing ideas have transferred to similar extremist views.

There is a middle of the road, but labour have veered off down a bloody ravine

A very good conversation.

I'm a lifelong Labour voter/activist. I've campaigned in more elections than I can remember and knocked on more doors than I can count. But even I'm close to having had enough.

Whatever your views on the trans 'debate', why the shitting hell are Labour making such a huge noise about a topic which concerns around 2% of the electorate? Actually that's not even true, is it. It affects us all, particularly if you're a woman and you're facing being told you have to share your female only spaces with male bodies. Or you're a lesbian being told you're transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a penis. But I digress.

The real issues Labour needs to be getting angry about are things like people dying because their disability benefits have bee stopped, or the massive increase in the use of food banks, or the hundreds of women and children turned away from refuges a day because of cuts, or the spike in homelessness. These are the sorts of issues people talk to you about when you're out campaigning. Not once in all the decades I've been doing so has told me they're concerned about gender issues such as the ones Labour are currently frothing over. That said, plenty are now utterly turned off by the misogynistic noises coming from party HQ.

If it carries on the way it is I don't see that a) I can support Labour for much longer or b) we'll see another Labour government. Both fill me with such sadness but it's the way it is.

ScreamingLadySutch thanks for sharing that link, just listened to it, it was very good. Why won't any Labour MPs speak up for women and vulnerable children, can they not see how much damage this is causing the party ?

@BoccaBaciata 1% -1.4%

if you watch the Douglas Murray/Andrew Doyle conversation (Magdaline College, Oxford/Wadham College, Oxford)

they analyse the marxist agenda underlying it

a huge noise about a topic which concerns around 2% of the electorate? Actually that's not even true, is it. It affects us all, particularly if you're a woman and you're facing being told you have to share your female only spaces with male bodies. Or you're a lesbian being told you're transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a penis.

It also effects anyone with a school aged child as what is being taught and conveyed by teachers is being changed by the people pushing this ideology. And the fact that your child can transition at school and the school is told to affirm this and not inform the parents unless the child agrees. How can this be ok?

As to how have the gotten here
Here is an interesting thread on James Morton of one of the Scottish group. It feels sinister 10-20 year communications plan. A completely contrived and targeted manipulation of other groups to convey your message for you and support you. Including involving children.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3829786-James-Morton-scottish-trans-alliance-quote

I'm a feminist and I don't care whether trans people can self identify or not. It's a tiny fringe issue

This issue will probably end up splitting the labour party as it splits everything else it comes into contact with (LGBT, anarchists, feminists atheists etc.) This is because the statement TWAW is a lie and getting 100% of people to go along with a lie will be impossible to achieve. At the same time Labour have backed themselves into a corner by saying to disagree with this lie makes you a bigot and morally reprehensible and should lead to people’s expulsion from the Labour Party. This is authoritarian and anti free speech. It is not a fringe issue.

I applied to join the Labour Party in early Jan, so I could vote in the leadership race. Called to follow up in early Feb and called again today to be told that they don't know when my application will be processed and it might not be dealt with in time for voting!

So I have withdrawn my application. It is all so amateurish and very, very frustrating. This should be a professional operation addressing the big issues but they are running the party like a student union in the 80's. Can you tell I'm frustrated?!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/23/lisa-nandy-wording-trans-rights-pledge-labour-leadership

I can’t believe Lisa is saying you have to believe what people say they are! I could call myself a penguin, dress in a penguin suit and then I am a penguin and everyone has to believe it

Why should women support the Labour party when it allows men to join all women short lists

For the sake of the very very few
they have lost half the population

idiots

Because a one party state is a bad thing.

A one party state with the current government is frightening.

Anyway, I'm hoping Starmer will get the party back on track.

It’s one horse race at the moment because the Labour Party have lost the plot, hopefully they are back on track with a decent leader by the time the next GE comes round.