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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think Labour have lost the plot

123 replies

Gin96 · 19/02/2020 18:32

Dawn Butler on Good Morning TV saying babies are born without a sex, has the world gone mad!

www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1243758/Labour-MP-Dawn-Butler-Richard-Madeley-sex-baby-ITV-Good-Morning-Britain-GMB-latest-video

OP posts:
peanutbuttermarmite · 20/02/2020 10:43

The identity politics focus is to pander to momentum to get elected, labour is in a desperate state and seems not to have understood the adjective defeat it suffered.

It’s a weird position when the moderates need to be more extreme to get the labour leadership in order to try and move labour away from the extremes. I’m not hopeful.

I can’t see Keir Starmer’s non interventionist foreign policy being a success either, he’s hobbled himself out of the gate.

Violetparis · 20/02/2020 10:52

It's not just the leadership candidates though, it's people like Sadiq Khan and Jess Philips who are firmly TWAW which is making people think the whole of Labour has lost the plot on this issue. And the silence from the rest of the party is seen as complicity.

Joisanofthedales · 20/02/2020 12:21

Don't worry ladies all will be wonderful under a new improved Labour goverment, where TRAS will be happy because there will only be compliant women in the party, who believe women can have a lady penis and anyone in the general population wont be able to get a job if they say anything not liked by the party because they will be reported for a non crime hate crime which will be recorded on a register. Religious women and those who have suffered sexual assault will just stay at home.
Unlikely? Probably. But just as unlikely as duffiedaisy's sweetness and light alternative reality under a Labour government.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 20/02/2020 12:31

Under a Labour government, everyone's lives would improve to some extent

I envy your optimism. But a million (felt like more) pie in the sky promises don't work. And they didn't convince millions of even previously loyal Labour voters either; let alone the valuable swing voters.

It's weird how people think had we woken up to a Corbyn government, we'd magically now be living in a birds tweeting, sun shining, arms around the world nirvana; and its the beastly Conservatives who are deliberately hiding that from us for shits and giggles.

We need a strong credible opposition, but instead we have a bunch of looney tunes caricatures riding around on a clown car. And they're preparing more of the same for their next performance as well.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 20/02/2020 12:33

Even Blair thinks it's a hiding to nothing.

"Blair said Labour had always won when it had broadened British politics, secured the centre ground and looked to the future, adding “and yet despite this obviously being true, we have exhibited an extraordinary attachment to retreating into a narrow part of the left which has always ended in defeat”."

...

"Asked if he believed the party genuinely wanted to win an election, he said: “I think it does want to win. The question is, does it want to win enough so that it’s prepared, one, to understand why it lost and be prepared to make the changes so it doesn’t lose again.”"

"He criticised the 2019 Labour manifesto, saying “the more you read it the less convinced you became”."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/20/tony-blair-only-a-complete-renewal-of-labour-will-do

FieldOfFlameAndHeather · 20/02/2020 12:41

Under a Labour government, everyone's lives would improve to some extent

What utter shite.

tobee · 20/02/2020 13:02

I don't think Blair has come to terms with the fact that this lot aren't bothered about winning an election. They are only interested in being "pure"

FieldOfFlameAndHeather · 20/02/2020 13:09

You might be right tobee

It’s the idealistic politics of earnest sixth formers. It’s easy to be full of principle and have all the answers when you know no one is ever going to actually hand you the reins and say ‘Off you go then. Show us how it’s done.’

ActualHornist · 20/02/2020 13:17

Tory central office is busy today

Don’t be so fucking ridiculous.

marashino · 20/02/2020 13:31

Don’t be so fucking ridiculous.

Try responding rationally and I'll engage. Resorting to foul language suggests that you don't have the capacity for a sensible discussion.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 20/02/2020 13:36

Try responding rationally and I'll engage. Resorting to foul language suggests that you don't have the capacity for a sensible discussion.

And claiming dissenting voices are "Tory Central Office" is? Rightio.

marashino · 20/02/2020 13:38

More rational that what you are saying. Au revoir.

Nanny0gg · 20/02/2020 13:40

There is so much going to shit in this country at the moment and the labour leadership candidates are making it all about the trans agenda.
Quite. I'm sure there's more important issues out there.

Climate change.
The benefits system
Education
Healthcare
Children in poverty
Knife crime
County lines
Etc etc

feelingverylazytoday · 20/02/2020 13:54

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who advocates for rapists to be housed in women's prisons is a complete and utter cunt, so it's a goodbye labour party from me.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 20/02/2020 13:55

More rational that what you are saying. Au revoir.

I stand corrected. That is the most incisive, devastating, rational argument going. Whew!

Love,
Tory Cen....I mean.... not Tory Central Office. Not at all. Tory what? Don't know what you mean. Who said Tory? Look over there!

thecatfromjapan · 20/02/2020 14:37

For all the people saying this is a fringe issue - implying we need to let it go because we need to be out, fighting the Tories ...

Who, exactly, is going to be out there fighting the Tories?

Most of the Leadership contenders and the Deputy Leadership contenders signed a pledge calling for the expulsion of women who question any of this.

So, actually, this is, in fact, all about fighting the Tories. About who has allowed int the pure Labour Party and permitted to fight the Tories.

Heaven knows, I'd like Labour to focus on things that that I, personally, think are more important.

But - with the expulsion pledge - these MPs (would-be Leaders and Deputies) have put this at the very centre of Labour.

Where you stand on this is a definition of whether you may, or may not, be in the Labour Party.

And don't forget Nadia Whittone, doubling down; stating that members that cannot be re-educated need to be expelled.

It is, in fact, completely dysfunctional.

This is not how you prepare for power.

It just isn't.

So, for all of you who need a proper Opposition to the current government, who need an Opposition to hold this government to account, to threaten the Conservatives with defeat next GE, and to give hope of a Labour government ...

Well, all I can say is, 'sorry.'

Because this is not how a Party, serious on becoming a government behaves.

You can say, 'There are bigger issues' all you wish.

But you are missing the point.

Anything Labour does right now is as meaningless as an arcane ritual from a vanished society.

Until Labour acts like a Party intent on government - and that means not threatening to expel members over issues that require debate, and listening to voters likewise - they are getting nowhere near government.

This is massively important and incredibly depressing.

The Leadership campaign is exposing just how much the Leaders are still in fear of the (loudest, most organised) members*. And how far those members are from the majority of the electorate.

*Not all members, clearly - or you wouldn't have to threaten a whole bunch of members with expulsion.

Joisanofthedales · 20/02/2020 14:50

Sone great posts pointing out the obvious.

Labour has no chance of power if it treats women who disagree on TWAW as bigots and unworthy of respect. Female voters don't care for being treated like something you wipe off your shoe with disgust. They tend to vote for a different party.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 20/02/2020 14:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheGreatWave · 20/02/2020 16:03

cat my issue is that this shouldn't even be on the radar of the leadership candidates. Instead of signing that pledge they should have squashed it at source. Now they are coming out with more and more that is just confirming to many that the party is unelectable.

thecatfromjapan · 20/02/2020 16:26

Yes, TheGreatWave.

peanutbuttermarmite · 20/02/2020 16:30

exactly - labour seem to be unable to come up with a sensible, simple line on things like trans rights and refocus the debate onto the things most people vote about.

YouTheCat · 20/02/2020 16:39

I went to hear Keir Starmer last week and he didn't mention gender politics once in the 40 minutes he was speaking.

He spoke about education, Sure Start and how proper investment there would be of benefit to the whole country in the long term.

thecatfromjapan · 20/02/2020 16:42

Keir Starmer didn't sign the 'expulsion' pledge, either.

Babdoc · 20/02/2020 16:44

There was a hilarious tweet on Twitter that summed up the current Labour fiasco beautifully:

“ Labour leaders’ strategy meeting:
“ Okay, so we’ve pissed off the Northerners, the Brexiteers, the Scots, the poor, the Welsh, the Irish. Surely there’s no group left we can possibly offend?”
Rebecca Wrong-Daily: “ Hold my beer....!”

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