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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Noise on trains

337 replies

Flower884 · 19/02/2020 15:32

Why do parents think it’s ok to let their child listen to a children’s programme loud on a train with no earphones?

I’ve experienced this a few times now on trains and planes. They seem oblivious to the noise.

Another lady has just asked the mum to turn it down as she’s trying to work. The mums response - well my child can’t hear it!

OP posts:
formerbabe · 20/02/2020 12:36

Doing work on the train is an expectation and necessary for some of us who travel a lot and have a high workload

That's your issue. The general public you're travelling with don't have to facilitate you being able to work.

JacquesHammer · 20/02/2020 12:41

Doing work on the train is an expectation and necessary for some of us who travel a lot and have a high workload

You can’t expect other people to facilitate that though beyond reasonable courtesy.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 20/02/2020 12:42

@formerbabe I never said they were. I was pointing out that people other than some of these more entitled parents may have shit to do on the train or want some peace.
People say that everyone should be understanding around these parents - but what about everyone else on the train? Aren't we entitled to so,e respect as well?

formerbabe · 20/02/2020 12:43

@Leighhalfpennysthigh. You're entitled to basic courtesy and consideration...whether or not you can work is your issue alone.

my2bundles · 20/02/2020 12:45

Yesturday train journey with my young teen who quietly got on with games on his ipad. We went on a crowded train where kids where laughing and having fun. Teens has headphones on. A few toddlers watching Peppa pig could hear it but not to bad. The worst people whete tje business nan expecting to take up an entire table for his laptop, papers etc showing no consideration for others on his table and talking loudly into his phone, and the man who kept swearing every few minutes and seemed aggressive for no reason constantly sticking his legs into the aisle when people whete trying to walk past. Kids, teens, toddlers all doing their own thing and not bothering anyone. Fully grown adults on the other hand 😉

GoldenOmber · 20/02/2020 12:45

Yes, I know, and I addressed that point at length, and why I think it's very stupid and irresponsible advice.

Well, okay, fine, take it up with the RCPCH. I suppose it's progress in a sense that we have moved from 'everyone agrees that any amount of screen time is inherently damaging to children' to 'what does the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health know anyway'.

Realistically, parents who stick a one-year-old on an iPad because they can't even control a baby without resorting to a screen are going to be using screens a lot throughout that child's life - and it may well cause them lifelong harm.

You don't 'control' a 1-year-old, and tbh it is coming across a bit oddly that you keep describing parenting in that way. 1-year-olds might vaguely understand that 'being quiet and obedient and unmoving for several hours at a time' is a desirable thing that adults want, but you cannot 'control' them into shutting up and sitting still for hours without doing various things to entertain them, and nor should you realistically try. Most of us travelling with 1-year-olds try to entertain them, not 'control' them.

Because the only two options are 'it's fine' and 'it's a criminal offence'? So if I don't think it should be a criminal offence to feed your child McDonalds every single day, that means I think it's fine? Or might there be a middle ground where it's neither fine nor criminal?

I think that if a parent buys their child a McDonalds meal for one trip away from home as a reward for or to encourage good behaviour, they are probably not damaging said child for life. Ditto, playing a game on an iPad.

my2bundles · 20/02/2020 12:48

Leighhalf it's a public mode of transportation not an office you carnt expect everyone else to accommodate you.

Kuponut · 20/02/2020 12:51

I work on the train - otherwise it's a lot of time wasted. I deliberately take a small size iPad and do a lot of reading/note taking and make sure it's the less concentration dependant stuff so I don't need a quiet working environment. Don't need to get my big laptop out either - too much of a faff on the trains I usually get.

I can work through most things - including stag dos in santa suits, the most obnoxious apprentice wannabees in full flow and the like. But Cartoon Decibel Dad winds me up every time I'm unlucky enough to get the same carriage as him.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 20/02/2020 12:54

Ok, I don't think I explained myself very well. I'm happy to work in a loud environment- I work in the middle of rugby games ffs. What I'm actually trying to say is that people do have to work, people have had a tiring day and are knackered or ill or stressed. Those people need consideration too, not just some parents. And note I said some. Not all. Oh and it is the parents - the adults who are at fault here not the child, so it is a criticism of adults not children.

my2bundles · 20/02/2020 12:59

Those parents and children could also have had a busy day, ill stressed eto etc. You also need to show them considration. Yes you have to work, great but that's not anyone else's problem just like other people's kids arnt your problem.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 20/02/2020 13:04

Oh for fucks sake. That's not what I said. I just said that everyone else also deserves respect and consideration. That means those parents doing what they can to manage their child's behaviour.

Oh fuck it. I've had enough of this.

my2bundles · 20/02/2020 13:10

Like I said yesturday it was adults who whete causing problems, not tne many children and teens on tne train who where happily getting on with laughing or playing on ipad s. They where not causing any problems. It's half term, more kids will be on trains and they will make kid noise that dosent mean they are being naughty or the parents arnt parenting. Like I said the person causing a problem was a business man taking up an entire table with his work and expecting everyone else to accommodate him, it certainly wasn't the many parents with toddlers.

my2bundles · 20/02/2020 13:13

And going by your swearing you are probably the second man we encountered who swore every few minutes, appeared aggressive and stuck his legs delibrately in tne isle to stop people passing. In froNT of children. Everyone else's life does not revolve around businessmen.

PeterPanGoesWrong · 20/02/2020 13:15

Whilst I agree that listening to somebody else’s choice of tv or music is intensely irritating, I think it’s probably the price we pay for using public spaces these days.
I’ve noticed my local pub, which is charming and quaint, with no jukebox, no tv, just chatter and laugher is often overwhelmed by children on iPads or phones. Whilst the parents are totally oblivious to the scratchy noises coming from Peppa Pig!
Just do as I do, complain loudly, but never directly and do lots of tutting and eye rolling.

ScarlettBlaize · 20/02/2020 13:19

@GoldenOmber

Well, okay, fine, take it up with the RCPCH. I suppose it's progress in a sense that we have moved from 'everyone agrees that any amount of screen time is inherently damaging to children' to 'what does the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health know anyway'.

Gosh, what a wonderful collection of straw men! You could start a lovely scarecrow farm.

What a crass misrepresentation of what I (didn't) say. I explained in great detail why I think the RCPCH advice is damaging and disadvantages those who are already at a disadvantage in terms of education and child development.

Of course, those writing the RCPCH advice will be highly-paid and highly-educated professionals who can afford high-quality childcare, so it's not going to impact them.

You don't 'control' a 1-year-old, and tbh it is coming across a bit oddly that you keep describing parenting in that way. 1-year-olds might vaguely understand that 'being quiet and obedient and unmoving for several hours at a time' is a desirable thing that adults want, but you cannot 'control' them into shutting up and sitting still for hours without doing various things to entertain them, and nor should you realistically try. Most of us travelling with 1-year-olds try to entertain them, not 'control' them.

Of course your job as a parent is to 'control' your child's behaviour. Especially in public around other people. How odd that you don't understand that. Entertaining a child is a way of managing their behaviour.

You trying to distort that into pretending I am talking about strapping babies into straitjackets and beating them with rulers if they make any noise is a very impressive reach.

I think that if a parent buys their child a McDonalds meal for one trip away from home as a reward for or to encourage good behaviour, they are probably not damaging said child for life. Ditto, playing a game on an iPad.

That may be what you 'reckon', but the reality is that the children who are having iPads stuck in their hands at the age of one are not 'playing an [occasional] game'. They are spending most of their childhoods in front of a screen and it's wrecking their brains.

Just like the 41.5% of children in deprived areas who are overweight or obese are not having an 'occasional' McDonalds, but are having their bodies destroyed by a constant diet of junk and no exercise.

I feel really sorry for all of these children, and I think it's shit that a body like the RCPCH gives out "hey, mum and dad know best, it's not for us to tell you what to do" advice like that, which flies in the face of the actual evidence in that BMJ review, which is unequivocal that screen time is very likely to damage children in anything other than very small amounts.

Anyone who thinks it's OK or normal to stick a one-year-old on a fucking iPad already has an extremely distorted idea of normality. It's very obvious - and backed up by that meta-analysis - that it's not a good idea. It's the equivalent of people putting Coke in their babies' bottles, and it's a hugely privileged middle-class "I'm alright Jack" sense of entitlement that leads people and organisations like the RCPCH to give advice which in practice is hugely damaging to those who can least afford it.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 20/02/2020 13:24

And going by your swearing you are probably the second man we encountered who swore every few minutes, appeared aggressive and stuck his legs delibrately in tne isle to stop people passing

Fucking bastard shitty bollocks bumholes.

No, I AM THE SECOND MAN!
(apparently swearing is the identifier)

my2bundles · 20/02/2020 13:27

So you are ok with a man being aggressive and swearing around children on public transport then? Swearing is far worse than a 2 year old watching Peppa pig.

IncyWincyGrownUp · 20/02/2020 13:34

I hate noise on trains and buses. I wear headphones if I’m on my own. If I’m with my children I tend to seethe inwardly and crack on with my day.

Prime irritations on trains are gadget noises (games/music/programmes etc) and drunk/drinking arseholes. I’d pay a premium for a properly enforced quiet carriage.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 20/02/2020 13:34

Swearing is far worse than a 2 year old watching Peppa pig.

I dunno tbh. I've seen clips of Peppa and it's fucking diabolical.

rosiejaune · 20/02/2020 13:35

We were on Eurostar last summer, and my daughter asked to watch a programme on my phone via their app.

I didn't even know you could watch things until we were already on the train (she saw it in the train brochure), and we didn't have headphones with us. Not that I have any myself so would have had to borrow them, and she has sensory issues so probably wouldn't have been willing to wear them anyway.

If I'd refused, she would have been a lot noisier crying about it (no doubt very persistently). She had other stuff to entertain her, e.g. colouring etc, which she did too, but it was a long journey in one day, from Manchester to Toulouse.

She was on the window seat, and I was on the aisle seat next to her, and I am sensitive to noise and didn't find it too loud. I deliberately set it at what I thought was a reasonable volume, i.e. just loud enough for her to hear it but not easily picked out of the background noise of the train/other passengers if you weren't right next to it.

The woman on the opposite window seat complained and wanted me to turn it down. Which I did without objecting, but then my daughter couldn't hear it.

Funny thing was, she didn't say anything to her neighbour on the aisle seat, who was a burly man shouting down his phone at another woman. Which was much louder and more distressing. Nor other people (adults) playing media on various devices or talking loudly. Just us.

GoldenOmber · 20/02/2020 13:39

I explained in great detail why I think the RCPCH advice is damaging and disadvantages those who are already at a disadvantage in terms of education and child development.

Yes, I'm sure you did. Like I said: take it up with them. I am not sure what you are expecting me to do? Go and tell them what you think?

Of course your job as a parent is to 'control' your child's behaviour. Especially in public around other people. How odd that you don't understand that.

I KNOW, RIGHT? I have been such a lax parent, thinking that behavioural expectations should be set appropriately by developmental stage! brb, off to 'control' my disobedient 8-week-old.

That may be what you 'reckon', but the reality is that the children who are having iPads stuck in their hands at the age of one are not 'playing an [occasional] game'.

Ah well, of course, you know best and can see so much better than the rest of us what must be happening in the homes of any random toddler, based on whether their parents give them an iPad on a long train journey. Never mind whether that's putting a 12-month-old in front of Reservoir Dogs or putting a 23-month-old in front of a shape-sorter game, it's probably all the same at home.

babysittingplus · 20/02/2020 13:40

It's just manners. Some people don't have them and don't bring their kids up to have them. With the exception of kids with additional needs there's no reason why a kid shouldn't use headphones or colour in or do a sticker book or be read to. But a lot of parents can't be arsed and would rather let their kid watch peppa pig loudly so they can scroll through Instagram in peace. I even had someone letting their two year old watch PP loudly at the side of my 6 year old daughter's ballet class. The teacher and kids could hardly hear each other or the music they were playing in class. People are losing the ability to behave appropriately in public. And they're bringing their kids up to think they can do what they like. I'm so bored with sitting on trains and planes and not being able to hear my own kids talking to me or concentrate on a book because some muppet is letting their 5 year old blare cartoons at full volume. It's incredibly selfish and rude. Of course it's also annoying when teenagers play music on the bus without headphones but I agree that in my experience the main issue is selfish/lazy parents who can't be arsed to interact with their kids and entertain them. And yes I have kids and yes I've travelled extensively with them when under three. Including a 16 hour journey with a very ill 2 year old. Managed it without broadcasting peppa pig for the whole world. No problem with kids with issues making noises in the cinema or on a plane. It's just entitled parents teaching their kids the same sense of entitlement. I even had a kid on a frigging balance bike in a restaurant one Friday night. WTF?

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 20/02/2020 13:46

Well I'm not the first man or the second man as a) I'm not a man and b) like today I spent all of yesterday at the hospital with my MIL So wasn't on any train.

I will keep fucking swearing though.

ScarlettBlaize · 20/02/2020 13:49

@GoldenOmber Yes, I'm sure you did. Like I said: take it up with them. I am not sure what you are expecting me to do? Go and tell them what you think?

No, I expected you* to answer my question, which was do you agree with their advice or not?

I presumed you did, as you keep citing them as an authority.

If you do, then that's why I'm challenging you about it.

And if you don't, then I'm not sure why you keep referring to it.

*when i say 'expected', I didn't actually expect you to answer that question any more than you've answered any of the other points I've raised, rather than just hurling out straw men left, right and centre.

I KNOW, RIGHT? I have been such a lax parent, thinking that behavioural expectations should be set appropriately by developmental stage! brb, off to 'control' my disobedient 8-week-old.

There you go again. Arguing with yourself about something that no one said, not even remotely.

You said it was 'strange' and 'odd' of me to use the word 'control' in relation to a parent's treatment of their baby in a public place.

I think it's pretty strange that you don't understand the notion that a parent is responsible for their child, especially in public.

Ah well, of course, you know best and can see so much better than the rest of us what must be happening in the homes of any random toddler, based on whether their parents give them an iPad on a long train journey. Never mind whether that's putting a 12-month-old in front of Reservoir Dogs or putting a 23-month-old in front of a shape-sorter game, it's probably all the same at home.

As I've said at least 30 or 40 times now, anyone who sticks an iPad in front of a one-year-old baby because they can't find any other way of managing their behaviour is clearly not managing OK with parenting.

Just like a parent who puts Coke in their baby's bottle is not doing OK either.

And I'd opt for trying to offer those parents support rather than telling them "it's OK hun, whatev u want, as long as its not Reservoir Dogz lol, the RCHPCPHCHCHH says so anyway".

GoldenOmber · 20/02/2020 13:55

No, I expected you to answer my question*

It's Mumsnet, love. You're not the NKVD. You can calm down on this one.

*when i say 'expected', I didn't actually expect you to answer that question any more than you've answered any of the other points I've raised, rather than just hurling out straw men left, right and centre.

I can see that you really very much want to argue with somebody who thinks that parents should just ur bubz ur rulez hun their way through life doing whatever the hell they want, and that you dearly want that person to be me, but no amount of "yet ANOTHER straw man from you! TYPICAL of your IRRESPONSIBLE DISHONEST WAYS!" is going to make that person be me. At this point, perhaps go and make yourself a nice cup of tea?

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