AIB an U wife / person generally

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DH and I have been married 6 years, together about 10, 2 DCs age 4 and 1.

I love him, I do, he's a kind man.

But he annoys me SO much what seems like a large proportion of our lives lately. He is slow with no urgency, a faffer, and so forgetful. I also think he's lazy in some ways, although he does also do his fair share to an extent in terms of house work.

I find myself constantly nagging/pointing out things he's done wrong and it almost always causes arguments, often in front of the DC which I hate. He gets very defensive if he feels he's being criticised, but I just can't help myself a lot of the time as I feel he should just be...better?

Examples of things I can't help pointing out/nagging:

• leaves the fridge open all the time
• forgets to do things that are his job, eg this morning baby DC is in nursery, DH is responsible for packing his bag. I had to ask him/remind him to put a bottle and formula in there. When I took DC to nursery after DH had already gone to work, I checked to see if his snuggly was in there and it wasn't. If I hadn't checked and put it in there myself (involving hunting for it) DC wouldn't have had it for his naps and would've got upset.
• doesn't do things I ask, even though I end up asking several times. I often feel like I should just do everything myself, but then that's unfair. The mental load always falls to me. These things could be as simple as getting DC things down from the loft, or contacting home insurance to see if we can claim for some damage to our house. There's certain weekly things he'll always remember to do eg put the bins out, but if it's as hoc stuff, he would never take the initiative, and when I ask him again and again, he accuses me of ordering him/nagging him etc.

Our relationship is becoming very fraught because of this constant bickering, but I just can't help myself to say something and don't feel like I should let certain things go.

But should I? AIBU and a bitch? Should I just accept him for who he is (he admits he's forgetful, faffy etc). I feel like our marriage isn't going to last as I just find myself irritated a large proportion of time.

I think when DC come along ,its often a shock to the guys who may have been used to DW picking up the slack for them .Along comes DC and suddenly theres a whole load more to do ! Many men seem to be like this .He does seem to do a fair bit though ! Maybe have a whiteboard to check details for him as he packs bags ? I often feel that even modern men cant/dont want to see the detail behind running a home, and accuse us of "Nagging"(Is there a more cutting word I wonder)! when we say that we need snuggly /bottle whatever . If it were the other way round it would be advising presumably! .

And it’s a reason why you rarely, if ever, find a man working in a detail driven job like event management

WTF?
If we we are dealing entirely in anecdotes then I am struggling to think of a single stage manager in the West End who is not a man - and they definitely need to be detail driven, organised and get stuff done efficiently.
And as someone else noted men seem to manage being rocket scientists, barristers, neurosurgeons quite well.

Meanwhile the science: I'd suggest reading some Gina Rippon or Cordelia Fine about neurosexism and the myth of the female or male brain. Gina Rippon had a book out last year called the Gendered Brain

And it’s a reason why you rarely, if ever, find a man working in a detail driven job like event management
Holy crapola that’s bollocks

No it isn’t. I’ve worked with dozens of event management teams, not a single man in any of them. All the other examples in that post involve team work where a whole range of people are responsible for the details.

A brain surgeon does the surgery, they’re not responsible for supplying and accounting for the instruments, booking the patient in, arranging the bed, pre oping the patient, anaesthetising them, arranging or providing after care. Their role is highly skilled, highly focused and very short term.

I don't thik either of you are being unreasonable on the face of it.

It is horrible being nagged about your inadequacies but it's horrible not being able to rely on a partner. DH is similar in that if there is a job that has an obvious beginning and end he is fine. Dishes, ironing etc, asking him to tidy something never gets the result you want as he does what he thinks then leaves a big pile of stuff to be sorted.

I think it's a combination of personality, hormones (on my side) and mental health (his side).

As DC are not adult, it's easier.

DS2 has dyspraxia and honestly does struggle with ad hoc stuff (losing things, not being able to organise things, taking forever to do stuff) and even at 18 could not be reliable in doing something such as packing for a holiday without a list to tick off, even then he'd either lose the list, tick the wrong thing or tick things and then not put them in. It's frustrating for everyone. Routine stuff he is better at as he now has mental checklists before he leaves the house that are small enough to work for him. I do the same myself (purse, pass, laptop, phone, keys, keys..)

I appreciate you are under a lot of stress and this isn't helping but maybe a frank discussion would clear the air - no nagging and with a bottle of wine after DC are in bed?

I am a forgetful person. I lose things, leave things behind, forget to put things away. I am sure it annoys my more organised DH. It definitely annoys me. I would dearly like to change it but it's not something I can just stop doing.

What I CAN do though is try to put coping strategies in place to catch all the things I'll forget. Lists, alarms, phone reminders. I wouldn't have left bottles and formula and snuggly out the nursery bag because I'd have made a list of Nursery Bag Things so I could check against that list rather than having to remember. If I needed to call the insurance I would set up a phone reminder to chirp at me and pester me until I did it.

It sounds like your DH's problem isn't that he's scatterbrained, but that he's scatterbrained and doesn't want to do anything about it and wants you to work around it rather than pointing out to him how much he's inconveniencing you. He can't help being forgetful but he really could help the rest of it. If he wanted to.

It doesn't sound on the face of it grounds for splitting up, but as someone who seriously contemplated it because of the noise he makes blowing his nose and brushing his teeth, I understand where you are coming from.

Start to think differently on the things you ask him to do.

Dh can you make your lunch for work today (you make yours and dc), so if he forgets he doesn't get lunch
Dh can you wash your clothes this weekend
Dh can you wash your car
Dh I've irons mine and dc clothes, can you do your own this week please
Dh can you wash up please, and it's your turn to make tea tomorrow night (so if he doesn't wash up then it will find it v difficult to cook the next day)

Try and box clever with him, whilst still getting the things done for you and dc

Thank you to everyone who's replied. I've drawn up a list of everything I can think of and it has made me realise maybe he does do a decent ish amount, but the clear division needs to be there.

To the poster who mentioned the pay cheque being the attraction, I earn more than my DH even though I work 32 hours and him full time! So no.

And to the poster who said I sound highly strung, I am definitely highly strung. But the majority of posters agree/sympathise with me so that's reassured me that I'm not unreasonable in my expectations.

And it’s a reason why you rarely, if ever, find a man working in a detail driven job

gosh, we really should stop letting them have most of the top jobs in government/companies/courts/everything then shouldn't we, poor lambs.

gosh, we really should stop letting them have most of the top jobs in government/companies/courts/everything then shouldn't we, poor lambs

Yes, we should definitely ensure they don’t have the monopoly on those jobs but also remember that the more senior the role, the more “big picture” and the less detail it involves.

My other half was like this for a long time it was infuriating however there has to be some give and take, also consequences, he was very avoidant of responsibility which as a parent is not an ideal trait.

If he forgets something let him, stop rescuing him and he has to clean up the mess he's made.

Also get him to understand the mental load. There's a really good cartoon on it which helped my husband a lot.

Husband uses an app called ToDo and makes recurring lists to help him (he's autistic, anxious and very forgetful because his brain is a bit chaotic). He breaks down pack bag to - pack x in bag, pack y in bag etc so he can tick it off as he goes.

I'm much more patient and accept that he will do things differently to me often with absolutely no harm done or change to the outcome. I let him fail to an extent so that he takes some responsibility too.

To give him some credit, I don't do anything for "him" really at all (and nor would I). I tend to do most of the laundry and he does most of the cooking, but if he needed some doing he would chuck it in, alongside any of my stuff that needed doing. I don't make his lunch, I don't remind him about anything to do with work or his family, friends etc.

It's only the DC and house stuff that needs splitting. We've always been fine at taking care of our own stuff ie lunches, laundry. Which is why it's only come to light that he can be so forgetful in the last few years!

Yes, we should definitely ensure they don’t have the monopoly on those jobs but also remember that the more senior the role, the more “big picture” and the less detail it involves.

So how do they work their way up through all the less senior roles to get there?

The thing I notice in these posts is that even when men take on certain tasks in the home they seen to be the tasks that need doing once a week, once a month etc. Also they are fixed things. The unpredictable curve balls also seem to be dealt with by the woman.

Things like car maintenance, DIY, Bins, Windows, Paying Utilities. You could make quite a long list of these essential tasks so on the surface seems like a lot, but really take little time or thought.

I can understand why all of these things annoy you. However, it sounds like he is the same person he was ten years ago, but now you are expecting him to change.

Well, yes. When you create humans, you have to change to make your life more suited to taking care of them and ensuring that they have everything they need. I'm sure the OP has changed - why should her husband not?

Can you not play to his strengths? Look at the things he’s good at and make them his responsibility. It’s obvious that bag packing isn’t his forte so substitute something else.

A lot of people have suggested this, but I'm not sure why it's acceptable for men in relationships to only do things that are easier and fall within their 'strengths' while women have to pick up EVERYTHING else because otherwise nobody would do them.

In an ideal partnership, you would have two people whose natural interests and inclinations match exactly to get everything done at optimal efficiency. But in most relationships, actually DOING the job is more important than whether you are particularly good at it.

Blaming the OP for failing to allocate her husband the jobs that he is most likely to do is missing the point. She shouldn't have to placate him and make it easier for him to participate in the running of the household. It should be something he does because it's part of being an adult, of being responsible for children, of being a proper partner.

I'm not 'good' at logging on the library system and renewing books, or doing an online shop without forgetting things, or organising birthday parties for a child who doesn't know what they want to do. But just not bothering to do them because they aren't my 'strengths' isn't an option.

Oh god. The invisible labour :-(

It's scary, but the only way to resolve this is to step back and let things fall apart. You have to absolutely believe that this isn't your job. It isn't.

My partner is fab. Once we REALLY talked about this - ie that women usually end up being the 'project manager' of the house, we got somewhere. He was genuinely worried about reinforcing sexist stereotypes, so that helped as a starting point for change.

If your partner is accusing you of 'nagging' and other sexist terms, then it doesn't sound like you're going to make much headway if he doesn't even see how it's a problem rooted in sexist roles. But good luck and the only advice I have is to at least let go of the tasks that you can!

So how do they work their way up through all the less senior roles to get there?

Not all the supporting roles need attention to detail, most teams contain “completer/finishers” who are good at that stuff. There’s a theory of team modelling on those lines, if only I could remember what it’s called!

Just reading the OP took me back to the toddler days. We were both working full-time and I had nothing to give domestically. I had to really spell it out to DH that I could not answer his questions about where stuff was/what we should feed the dc etc as I was barely hanging on. Just use your own brain and do it. Don't use mine to save yourself thinking.

Fast forward and it is fine. He likes to discuss things with me and he'll still ask me where things are before looking for them (drives me nuts) but the difference is that every last one of my nerves isn't shredded by coping with toddlers and small kids that talk all the time plus work demands plus god knows what else. I can cope therefore what he does isn't anything but him being quite communicative actually.

It did take him quite a bit of explaining and trial and error to stop going "shall I give him a bath?" instead of just fucking doing it. God looking back I really was highly strung. It was just so all consuming.

Right I'm currently drafting a list of all the things I can think of, down to each individual bill

Here are some really handy lists. herestheplanbook.com/dividing-household-responsibilities

Print them out and discuss who does what. Then get a good family diary app for both of you and add each item to it.

If your husband is willing then he can improve. Having everything written down takes away the nagging. We all assume that household chores and tasks can just float around in our mind. If we approached our professional work life like this then we’d all be in a mess! Treat housework and chores like and job and you and DH are the team. Good luck!

I fully understand how you feel as my DH is pretty much the same. Adores our baby girl and our family and is willing to do anything in or out of the house, provided I ask him to do it. He just doesn't notice things in the house, and even when he does - it is not always the most efficient way to do them so he wastes a lot of time. At first I was irritated by it but then I accepted that it is really no ill will or him not caring for us - he just honestly doesn't seem to register certain things.

Since we both work full time and I can't bear being the only bearer of the mental load we sat down and talked about it. As a result, we made a list of things that will be his responsibility - daily, weekly, monthly... For some things I showed him how I do it, for some we wrote down the list of tasks/steps to be taken and from then on - it is up to him to do it. It did wonders for our marriage. I don't have to remind him. He doesn't feel useless around our home or like he's failing us.

Bottom line is, we're not all the same - some people are better organized and more efficient than others. Acknowledging that and helping the other gain some focus is, in my experience, way better than having unrealistic expectations that somehow, miraculously, person who is a day-dreamer (for example) will become super rational and organized. This of course, works only if there is genuine good will on the other side.

Thanks!

Can anyone recommend a good app to use? I've made a table in Outlook but it needs to be in our phones really. We currently use the FamCal app for appointments/social events etc which works well and we both always put in when we've got something on of an evening for example, but it's not a great app for the kind of list/table we need.

Not to be the dissenting voice - but who says it has to be done your way? Who says you get to dictate everything? Why does it have to be your routine?
I think if my partner presented we with this kind of details "all the things your are shit at" list I'd be very pissed off.

Which is why it's only come to light that he can be so forgetful in the last few years!

Having young children creates a huge amount of household work and mental load. At least you’re not forgetful either! Me and my DH were both useless in this department- it was fine while we were floating along pre children but as soon as children came along we both had to really up our game. Plus sleep deprivation doesn’t help. I used to scoff at being organised and writing everything down but now you should see the amount of lists we have for everything!

I would love it if DH took the initiative and came up with a divided list sillysmiles!

My OH is very much like this, not only do I have to remind the kids I have to remind him also I generally think men (not all) just play it safe because if he does anything wrong or packs it wrong he’s likely to get ripped a new one haha! It’s just the assumption mum/wife will do, sometimes I feel like by the time I have explained it 4000000 times it would have been quicker to do it myself anyway.

I’ve just sit with a face like a smacked arse and then he knows and asks can I help? Yes about 20 minutes ago eye roll