to say if you work, please join a union

[frankie80]

I have been off work for a year due to bullying, discrimination etc that caused me to have a breakdown and feel suicidal.

I went to my workplace rep who was nice and sympathetic but quickly realised she was out of her depth who passed me to the regional equality rep who has been absolutely amazing.

Thanks to my union, I have had:

1. my grievance and appeal letters written for me and damn, they are good. my work have struggled to wriggle out of what they have done

2, representation at all formal meetings from senior union officials 3, full pay for 12 months negotiated by my union 4, no annual leave taken off me even when I took (pre booked) holidays so I have had 40 days carried over into this year on top of this years entitlement 5, no bullshit. My union have been 100% honest about my case, whats strong, what's not strong 6, downgrading a disciplinary to a first written warning when it was looking like dismissal and pointing out to my employer that I am now adding victimisation to my case 7, introducing me to people who have had similar experiences for support network 8, got my employer to pay for specialised counselling (not the employee assistance programme) 9, got policy changes agreed in my workplace 10, got reasonable adjustments in place for me, including ones I hadn't considered 11, put an employment tribunal claim in for me 12, negotiated a positive reference for when I ever decide to leave 13, negotiated additional responsibilities etc for me at work in light of not being promoted due to my protected characteristics 14, putting me through union representative training so I can help colleagues 15, pushed for my line managers to be disciplined, if not fired, ensured their behaviour was not swept under the carpet 16, just sat and listened to me, let me cry and cry 17, answered emails and text messages at weekends and evenings. 18, sent me a very nice email saying how qualified, experienced and capable I am, not to mention strong and resilient and that they weren't just saying that because it was their job but that they were genuinely impressed with me.

I know so many people who are not in unions who got shafted by my employer. I was in a union since the age of 16 when I worked part time in a shop, now I'm full time in the public sector. My parents always insisted I join one and I thank them for that. I've only needed my union twice in my career but this occasion has been the biggie.

So although I've been a member for 17 years, I knew that didn't mean I was paying for nothing. You never know when union membership might be needed.

My union is Unison and I am so grateful to them because I really do not know how I would have coped this year without them. I do not have legal cover or anything like that I could have used instead. I did try going to HR at first but they were utterly incompetent and downright nasty - another thing that will feature in the tribunal claim. I am HR qualified btw so I'm not the typical HR hating employee.

So if you are in employment, please join a union, you don't know when you might need one. Yes there are workplace reps who are not very good (I've had some myself!) but always push for the regional rep if you aren't happy. I'd always rather be in a union than out of one.

Also don't make the assumption that if you are in a union then everything will go your way. If you steal something they are not going to pat you on the head, give you false hope and stop you from getting fired. They will, however, advise you of your options.

Anyway, if you join a union, make it Unison. They aren't just for the public sector.

I am really surprised to read your outcome OP, what you got out of your employer feels excessive and unrealistic and I am not sure you have got it right. Sounds like the only bullying going on here is a union rep who thinks when they use big words such as victimisation that everyone should be scared. I work in HR and get so fed up of union reps who think they can make demands rather than working with employers to get the RIGHT outcome, whether that is good or bad for the employee. So if you have achieved so much, why would you want to continue working there AND take them to an ET? I am not saying you have not been wronged but I do think you need to decide if this employer is for you.

EBearhug which union are you in?

@yummumto3girls

I don't want to work there anymore, but I am not going to quit with nothing to go to. Plus you don't need to be dismissed to go to an ET where it is discrimination.

I have a lot of evidence eg emails and minutes. I also have witness statements that confirm what happened. My employer cannot deny what has happened but are trying to. That's why my union rep is in the stronger position. Its certainly not bullying, its pointing out that my employer has broken the law, multiple times. the police have even been involved.

No exit package has been offered in case anyone suggests that and I know my employer, they would never offer one anyway.

This would not be a police matter. It is an employment matter.

My DH works in a highly unionised industry.......I am freelance

the number of things he comments on that are completely ridiculous, lack common sense, and is a factor in why the industry he works in is largely dysfunctional with some form "its against the union agreement"

or

"Can't do Y as the union agreed X with management and to do Y would break the agreement"

Even though Y is clearly the most common sense thing to do.....

Makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

So no, unions are not good.

I work in HR and have seen a downturn in employment rights/practice during my time in the field.

I have worked for some particularly sharp/nasty employers who do things such as refuse to give proper contracts of employment, take shifts off employees at will (which they can get away with as the contracts don't define the hours) and take every conceivable thing out of final pay when the person leaves or is sacked (such as charging them back at their hourly rate for 'training days' which is not classroom training or a course but the first two days induction on site when they are just shadowing someone else).

A good union rep or strongly worded legal letter can work wonders! Many of the managers I work with have an attitude of 'let's see what we can get away with/ how much fuss they make' and then change tack entirely when it is clear the person knows their rights and will go further!

change tack entirely when it is clear the person knows their rights and will go further!

I think this is a key point. Whether someone is in a union or not, everyone should make sure they have an understanding of basic employment law and your rights and responsibilities. Unions, HR, ACAS, and so on are there to give advice from different perspectives - but if you don't have a basic understanding of your workplace rights, you might not know when you should consult them, what things you should challenge and what you should accept.

Over the years, I have been quite taken aback at how little understanding some people have about their workplace rights - which you can mostly get away with if you've got a mostly capable employer (but even they can make mistakes sometimes - mostly we're all human, and even the computerised bits were programmed by humans,) but there are other employers who are less scrupulous and a little knowledge can help you know when to get help.

So no, unions are not good.
so one nebulous example and the question is settled once and for all

Not the best example of critical thinking, was it!

I actually think ACAS are pretty good at getting your rights enforced. I've had employees go to ACAS when the manager had refused them holiday (and refused to let them carry over to the next year) so they had not had chance to take holiday entitlement. I'm not sure this is what ACAS was set up for but they soon got their holiday back.

actually think ACAS are pretty good at getting your rights enforced.

They told me what I didn’t want to hear, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t good at what they do

@yummumto3girls

There was an incident at work that needed police involvement. People were charged but no disciplinary action was done by my employer. To say anything further would likely out me.

The other great thing about unions is their willingness to fight test cases that benefit 1000s of workers, none of whom have any individual bargaining power.

The best example is the 4 year fight by UNISON to secure the abolition of tribunal fees. Amazingly, these fees, brought in in 2013, meant it cost, for example, £1,200 to bring a tribunal claim to enforce your right to reasonable paid time off for an ante natal appointment. The Supreme Court judgment is a triumph in telling overweening right wing governments to fuck right off. Ever wondered why our current government has judicial review in its sights? This is why.

This litigation was entirely financed by the subs of unison members.

The GMB and the IWGB have fought and won many tribunal cases forcing employers of gig economy workers to pay national minimum wage and holiday pay. Next time you take delivery of your amazon parcel, think of the GMB’s litigation and campaign to get these workers the basic rights you take for granted.

The OP is heartening to read but unions are not just there to provide individual representation if things go wrong for you.

There’s also a bigger picture.

There is no doubt that unions have fought and won many rights for workers. I, and the millions who have benefitted, are surely grateful for that.

Bad luck for me that I got one (well two) of the bad apples.

Sorry. Just a touch bitter. The bigger picture is the important thing but I can’t help feeling I was let down on a personal level.

Great post figment
I didn't know about the tribunal fees, good job

NumbersStation

It’s harder to look at the bigger picture if you have personal experience of not getting the help you expected. But on a general basis you get many other rights and benefits we take for granted and forget they were fought for

I am in Unison but am seriously fucked off with their pre election letters telling me to vote Labour.

I am educated, I can read and I can make up my own mind who I want to vote for without Dave Prentice peddling his views.

I was really shocked by a post on here a few weeks ago from a teacher who wasn't in a union. In a job like that you ABSOLUTELY need to be in one. It's not just about the legal support, but the specialist knowledge. Not all unions are political and not all unions support strike action, so if those are your objections, you should still be able to find an alternative.

I am, of course, grateful for the campaigns relating to workers rights in general, And pleases that so many have been successful. However, on a personal level, I have been very disappointed with my union. I have asked for advice on about three occasions. On each occasion, the advice was been, at best, woolly, And in one instance non - existent . On that occasion I had asked for advice about a specific situation that had arisen due to a nationwide restructuring. For the most part there would have been so issue, except that the situation involved potential redundancies and my colleague announced her pregnancy after we'd all received the 'at risk' notifications. I know that you cannot be made redundant because you are pregnant, but wasn't sure about this situation where the redundancy process had started before the pregnancy was announced. My union would not tell me anything because as they said, they would always support a pregnant woman over another employee, regardless of the merits of the case. In the end it was my boss and the hr department whowho were able to resolve it. Thankfully, hr has access to employment lawyers who could give accurate, dispassionate advice.
Our local branch also agreed a major Change to our employment conditions without consulting the membership. I remain in the union in case I ever need legal representation which I can access through them, but if I was in a different job, I probably wouldn't bother.

I found this thread again and thought I'd give an update

So I was due to return when Covid hit

I got another 10 months full pay negotiated by my TU official

This is because a, my grievance was still not resolved b, my tribunal claim was still going through the process and obviously on hold due to covid c, my mental health got worse due to the stress of it all, I was fainting and having anxiety attacks and getting tested at the hospital to check nothing else was going on and d, they still hadn't put in place all the adjustments they'd promised to enable me to return

They made all sorts of promises to get me to return. I went back for one week, and discovered no one had been disciplined, no one had been fired, the promised adjustments were not in place anywhere, they expected me to be supported/counselled by the very people I'd complained about and basically had lied to me and my union official to try to get us to drop our claim (we hadn't dropped it fortunately, we'd agreed to see how the return went).

So enough was enough. I handed in my resignation, my TU official said I would add constructive dismissal to my claim, they asked my TU official if they could settle out of court and he got me a near £70,000 payout (before tax)

I walked almost straight away into another job that is entirely working from home. It is third sector, not unionised, but I am still in Unison. I help with the branch and also the equality groups. I have managed to get them a few new members from my charity and hopefully we can build up enough to get unison recognised.

So that's my good news update and I once again encourage others to join a union. I promise I don't work for them! I am just a very grateful member and volunteer.

@ACautionaryTale

My DH works in a highly unionised industry.......I am freelance

the number of things he comments on that are completely ridiculous, lack common sense, and is a factor in why the industry he works in is largely dysfunctional with some form "its against the union agreement"

or

"Can't do Y as the union agreed X with management and to do Y would break the agreement"

Even though Y is clearly the most common sense thing to do.....

Makes me want to bang my head against a wall.

So no, unions are not good.

Agreed. DP got made redundant due to the draconian criteria made by the union. Based on sickness absence and DP had 3 incidents, 2 of which he was hospitalised for (appendicitis and cellulitis) but that didn't matter. No disciplinaries, no appraisal issues, all in all a great member of the team. The one who stayed late to help out because he enjoyed what he did, never bothered with overtime as we didn't need the money, happy for the guys with young families to get a bit extra. Multiple people kept on who have been subject to more than once disciplinary, serial Monday sick days and quite a few not physically fit for the job and long past retirement age but didn't fall into union criteria. Quite shocking really.

@frankie80

I found this thread again and thought I'd give an update

So I was due to return when Covid hit

I got another 10 months full pay negotiated by my TU official

This is because a, my grievance was still not resolved b, my tribunal claim was still going through the process and obviously on hold due to covid c, my mental health got worse due to the stress of it all, I was fainting and having anxiety attacks and getting tested at the hospital to check nothing else was going on and d, they still hadn't put in place all the adjustments they'd promised to enable me to return

They made all sorts of promises to get me to return. I went back for one week, and discovered no one had been disciplined, no one had been fired, the promised adjustments were not in place anywhere, they expected me to be supported/counselled by the very people I'd complained about and basically had lied to me and my union official to try to get us to drop our claim (we hadn't dropped it fortunately, we'd agreed to see how the return went).

So enough was enough. I handed in my resignation, my TU official said I would add constructive dismissal to my claim, they asked my TU official if they could settle out of court and he got me a near £70,000 payout (before tax)

I walked almost straight away into another job that is entirely working from home. It is third sector, not unionised, but I am still in Unison. I help with the branch and also the equality groups. I have managed to get them a few new members from my charity and hopefully we can build up enough to get unison recognised.

So that's my good news update and I once again encourage others to join a union. I promise I don't work for them! I am just a very grateful member and volunteer.

Typical union post there - aren't most members volunteers and not paid? You're just trying to drum up business - should be ashamed of yourself.

Brilliant outcome.

@Jarvisisgod

Unions did fuck all for my DH. Useless. Unite is the worst

Unison not much better. Huge reorganization at work with significant reduction in benefits and they did fuck all.

I paid into a union for twenty years
It didn’t stop me being made redundant
They done nothing