to say if you work, please join a union

[frankie80]

I have been off work for a year due to bullying, discrimination etc that caused me to have a breakdown and feel suicidal.

I went to my workplace rep who was nice and sympathetic but quickly realised she was out of her depth who passed me to the regional equality rep who has been absolutely amazing.

Thanks to my union, I have had:

1. my grievance and appeal letters written for me and damn, they are good. my work have struggled to wriggle out of what they have done

2, representation at all formal meetings from senior union officials 3, full pay for 12 months negotiated by my union 4, no annual leave taken off me even when I took (pre booked) holidays so I have had 40 days carried over into this year on top of this years entitlement 5, no bullshit. My union have been 100% honest about my case, whats strong, what's not strong 6, downgrading a disciplinary to a first written warning when it was looking like dismissal and pointing out to my employer that I am now adding victimisation to my case 7, introducing me to people who have had similar experiences for support network 8, got my employer to pay for specialised counselling (not the employee assistance programme) 9, got policy changes agreed in my workplace 10, got reasonable adjustments in place for me, including ones I hadn't considered 11, put an employment tribunal claim in for me 12, negotiated a positive reference for when I ever decide to leave 13, negotiated additional responsibilities etc for me at work in light of not being promoted due to my protected characteristics 14, putting me through union representative training so I can help colleagues 15, pushed for my line managers to be disciplined, if not fired, ensured their behaviour was not swept under the carpet 16, just sat and listened to me, let me cry and cry 17, answered emails and text messages at weekends and evenings. 18, sent me a very nice email saying how qualified, experienced and capable I am, not to mention strong and resilient and that they weren't just saying that because it was their job but that they were genuinely impressed with me.

I know so many people who are not in unions who got shafted by my employer. I was in a union since the age of 16 when I worked part time in a shop, now I'm full time in the public sector. My parents always insisted I join one and I thank them for that. I've only needed my union twice in my career but this occasion has been the biggie.

So although I've been a member for 17 years, I knew that didn't mean I was paying for nothing. You never know when union membership might be needed.

My union is Unison and I am so grateful to them because I really do not know how I would have coped this year without them. I do not have legal cover or anything like that I could have used instead. I did try going to HR at first but they were utterly incompetent and downright nasty - another thing that will feature in the tribunal claim. I am HR qualified btw so I'm not the typical HR hating employee.

So if you are in employment, please join a union, you don't know when you might need one. Yes there are workplace reps who are not very good (I've had some myself!) but always push for the regional rep if you aren't happy. I'd always rather be in a union than out of one.

Also don't make the assumption that if you are in a union then everything will go your way. If you steal something they are not going to pat you on the head, give you false hope and stop you from getting fired. They will, however, advise you of your options.

Anyway, if you join a union, make it Unison. They aren't just for the public sector.

Recently a good friend has been the victim of stalking/abuse/reign of terror by her ex part ner. She spoke to Womens Aid who advised her that her union may pay for a solicitor. They did indeed pay for a solicitor and she now has an injunction in place.

Police on the other hand were no help whatsoever, telling her she would need to wait to be struck by this man before anything was done.

I have also had excellent support from my union. Even just having someone to say "you aren't imagining this".

I won't be joining one, as I'm a director of the company and our CEO is actually a former director of a union. He knows every trick in the book as such! Though together we use our powers for good We've put a lot of work into improving working conditions for our staff.

One thing I would say I've found useful as an employer is ad hoc HR support from an external agency. I wouldn't hesitate to use their services as an employee too - I'd much prefer that to internal HR, who have been universally useless in my experience (though that's probably because they've been selected to be 'on side' with management).

Sadly a lot of workplaces and contracts ban union membership. No idea how it is legal.

@drspouse This with bells on. I can't overstate the relief to finally be believed and have someone actually understand and tell me I wasn't being paranoid or over reacting. I can't sing the regional equality officer's praises highly enough. He just "got it" straight away and always hit the nail on the head.

@thecatsthecats my union insisted that my employer used external HR in the grievance process because I had been so let down and badly treated by internal HR and there would be little prospect of a fair hearing through internal HR.

If your rep is shit - vote for a better one next time (or stand yourself). Or go to the regional manager, or higher.

This just shows a fundamental unawareness of the complete toxic cliques that can exist in the unions in some companies. The Union rep is She-who-must be obeyed and they all have enough flying monkeys that no one can touch them.

@ArriettyJones

It's not legal.

GMB is a general union. They were originally the General Municipal Workers Union, then they merged with the Boilermakers Union and became GMBATU - General Municipal Boilermakers Allied Trade Union.
Then they shortened it to GMB and now they say it doesn't stand for anything and get annoyed if you remind them of the history.

My dad worked for them for many years.

What @Dyrne said. Which seems so scarily accurate that it sounds like our rep...

And looking at all the time they spend doing courses and meetings and whatever else, it would make it almost impossible for me even if I could stand. I care for family on top of my job and their lives would suffer.

NumbersStation

I understand your point ivy and historically they may have done a fabulous job.

Just in my experience they are failing now.

As previously stated a Union is only as good as the members, if members aren’t interested then it will fall of by the wayside

Much moaning on here but not much action for change...

I am a union rep (not for Unison) in the private sector. My employer is one of the best in our industry and that is partly because they recognise the union. We have collective annual pay bargaining (yes non members benefit from this too - which irritates me tbh!). We generally take a pretty constructive approach to things (on both sides), it’s not antagonistic fortunately because senior management recognises the benefit of working with us rather than against us.

Internal HR on the other hand are extremely inept. Just very unprofessional and make loads of mistakes which can have serious consequences for staff. I have saved people’s jobs after HR fuck-ups. (I know I know - NOT ALL HR PEOPLE ... etc). And yes HR’s job is to pursue the best interests of management, not of you the individual staff member. So when it comes to throwing someone under the bus, guess who’s going to get it?

A lot of people don’t realise that their workplace reps are usually volunteers - we do it in addition to our full time jobs. That obviously means you’re going to get quite a bit of variation in quality and effort. The full time union regional and HQ staff are there to help deal with serious cases - if your workplace rep is crap then that is what the professionals are there for. And as others have said, if you’re not happy with the quality of service you’re receiving, do get involved yourself. We need more people to help spread the burden. It’s quite incredible how much we deal with - and I would estimate at my workplace union members don’t see 80% of what we do (because it’s stuff like repping individual cases which are of course confidential).

Happy to answer any questions anyone might have about unions, being a rep etc.

Fair enough. I was interested and was secretary for the branch. I kind of lost interest when I was let down so badly.

The union is only as good as the strength of its members. When the union continually lets people down the members will find their help elsewhere.

And people’s cases are not kept confidential here sadly.

@ElloBrian

Yep, my regional rep works very long hours and I feel guilty for badgering him sometimes. He doesn't seem to have much down time but he's very good at what he does.

I fucking hate my HR and would love to give them (and my managers) a piece of my mind but I have to keep working there (for now) so I have to find a way to keep it contained. Easier said than done.

Oh what a surprise this has become a massive HR bashing post I work in HR I’m a person not a function you never see finance people or marketing people being demonised in the same way as you do HR

I try to do right by people but here we are just completely tarred with the same brush that we don’t give a shit about anybody that we are incompetent etc

Actually in most of my experiences union reps have been shit for their employees, completely misadvised them making situations worse for the individual or just acted as bullies. Maybe that’s because I’ve only ever worked in professional environments and therefore the unions can only have limited effectiveness because people are protected by employment law regardless of whether they’re in a union or not.

I'm an HR manager and the unions I've worked with have all been totally useless. I've been part of change management programmes when you'd expect the union to fight for their staff and they just gave in and were not interested. I've had representatives make things much worse for members in disciplinary hearings and I've never seen a union actually support its member all the way to tribunal.

My ex-DH was also in a union and they were absolutely awful when he really needed them. I ended up fighting for him (even though he was my ex) and preparing his letters etc and saving his job. They were not even interested in trying to help.

I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't necessarily join a union, because clearly some are better than others, but don't give people false hope that being in a union will save them or help them. Its great it has in your case, but this most definitely isn't always the case.

I try to do right by people but here we are just completely tarred with the same brush that we don’t give a shit about anybody that we are incompetent etc

to be fair most of the posts here have (rightly) pointed out that HR is there for the benefit of the company not the employees. And if part of the benefit to the company is keeping employees happy i don't see how that is HR bashing? Also what I'm seeing here is much more union bashing than anything else. But I'm sure most of us here enjoy our weekends, bank holidays, paid vacation, sick leave and maternity benefits. That the magic unicorn brought, apparently.

Nobody should be surprised that there's conflict between unions and HR. That's the nature of the relationship.

I think it's fair to be sceptical of anyone in a union who says "all hr are evil" and anyone in HR who says "all unions are useless".

Maybe being in HR would be easier if unions didn't exist. As a trade unionist, I think HR is essential but they're not always right.

@Mia1415 I said I hate my HR, not all HR. That said, when I did my CIPD studies, the attitudes on the Facebook groups towards persons with protected characteristics were appalling and put me right off ever working in HR. I think a knowledge of HR is useful though when pursuing my case and becoming a Rep. I got my level 5 diploma in just 2 months (online with ICS) and I'm nearly finished my level 7 in under a year (again with ICS) and the easiness of the qualifications went some way to explaining why my HR dept are so shit.

@Figgygal actually our marketing and finance departments are equally as discriminatory as HR. Eg some offensive terminology in poster campaigns and I hear of finance f*cking up maternity pay and stuff like that a lot.

Maybe being in HR would be easier if unions didn't exist

Not really, I've done both and it's just different, not necessarily easier.

HR get the blame for management incompetence. And finance make more decisions that affect staff than HR do, HR just have to carry them out and deliver the news.

@VanGoghsDog

No, HR are the ones who fucked up, it wasn't just management. They fucked up so much they asked me to sign an NDA.

I wasn't talking about your specific case, clearly.
And I've never done a settlement agreement for anyone because of something HR have done, only where managers can't be arsed to do things properly.

Everyone can join a union. Use the TUC union finder tool to find one for your employer/sector - www.tuc.org.uk/join-union

Not all unions are politically aligned to a political party - mine isn't; I remember members voted on it some years ago. The main reason (if I am remembering correctly) was because they wanted to feel free to lobby whichever party was in power.

Employers don't have to recognise a union unless over 30% of the staff are members - that doesn't mean you can't be a member. It means you won't have collective bargaining for pay, but you can still get representation and so on.

I have been a union member for years. I have been to anew education day for women in STEM, and used some of the benefits like subsidised careers counselling. They offer other benefits such as insurance and a will-writing service (would need to check for the full list.)

I was very glad of them just over a year ago when I was put through an entirely unnecessary disciplinary. My union rep was external (because we don't have a recognised union) - so it was his job, rather than being additional voluntary stuff on top of his job. He was very good, and we got the desired outcome - an acknowledgement that the incident should never have gone past initial investigation and everything wiped from my record. The union had said if we had had to proceed to tribunal, my legal fees would be covered by them (this is only true if they believe they should support the case.)

I have also had them attend when I was a witness in another HR investigation - I don't think they should have been there, tbh, but HR had used a standard template, and not changed enough details, and they didn't object, so it was all fine. Our HR are actually pretty good in a lot of ways, but some of them are a bit lacking on things that you might consider a basic part of their jobs.

I have heard tales of bad union reps, but they're like the rest if us, human, and some are not very good in the same way you get some people who are crap managers, crap HR staff, crap technicians, crap teachers, crap doctors, etc, etc. If they're in-company, they're probably really short if time, too.

I work for a multinational and in some EMEA countries, they have to have a workers' council - so we actually have a Europe-wide workers' council with representation from all countries where we have offices. These people are more like traditional union reps in that they are volunteers on top of their day jobs. But they're more into group discussions about things like how GDPR affects employees' personal data than taking on individual cases. (They do do individual cases in some places like Germany.)

I am very glad I have union membership - my experience has been good, and I have definitely been glad to have someone on my side at times.

Unfortunately not a lot of Unions are that great and a lot of their reps aren't up to date with their employment law knowledge. Some are also very unprofessional and don't help situations at all.

So not everyone will find them helpful.

ACAS is the best point of call for advice when it comes to employment matters... I've met way too many union reps that haven't got a clue and end up making it worse with inaccurate advice.

Mine completely saved me when I needed them. I pay a lot but worth every penny.