to say if you work, please join a union

[frankie80]

I have been off work for a year due to bullying, discrimination etc that caused me to have a breakdown and feel suicidal.

I went to my workplace rep who was nice and sympathetic but quickly realised she was out of her depth who passed me to the regional equality rep who has been absolutely amazing.

Thanks to my union, I have had:

1. my grievance and appeal letters written for me and damn, they are good. my work have struggled to wriggle out of what they have done

2, representation at all formal meetings from senior union officials 3, full pay for 12 months negotiated by my union 4, no annual leave taken off me even when I took (pre booked) holidays so I have had 40 days carried over into this year on top of this years entitlement 5, no bullshit. My union have been 100% honest about my case, whats strong, what's not strong 6, downgrading a disciplinary to a first written warning when it was looking like dismissal and pointing out to my employer that I am now adding victimisation to my case 7, introducing me to people who have had similar experiences for support network 8, got my employer to pay for specialised counselling (not the employee assistance programme) 9, got policy changes agreed in my workplace 10, got reasonable adjustments in place for me, including ones I hadn't considered 11, put an employment tribunal claim in for me 12, negotiated a positive reference for when I ever decide to leave 13, negotiated additional responsibilities etc for me at work in light of not being promoted due to my protected characteristics 14, putting me through union representative training so I can help colleagues 15, pushed for my line managers to be disciplined, if not fired, ensured their behaviour was not swept under the carpet 16, just sat and listened to me, let me cry and cry 17, answered emails and text messages at weekends and evenings. 18, sent me a very nice email saying how qualified, experienced and capable I am, not to mention strong and resilient and that they weren't just saying that because it was their job but that they were genuinely impressed with me.

I know so many people who are not in unions who got shafted by my employer. I was in a union since the age of 16 when I worked part time in a shop, now I'm full time in the public sector. My parents always insisted I join one and I thank them for that. I've only needed my union twice in my career but this occasion has been the biggie.

So although I've been a member for 17 years, I knew that didn't mean I was paying for nothing. You never know when union membership might be needed.

My union is Unison and I am so grateful to them because I really do not know how I would have coped this year without them. I do not have legal cover or anything like that I could have used instead. I did try going to HR at first but they were utterly incompetent and downright nasty - another thing that will feature in the tribunal claim. I am HR qualified btw so I'm not the typical HR hating employee.

So if you are in employment, please join a union, you don't know when you might need one. Yes there are workplace reps who are not very good (I've had some myself!) but always push for the regional rep if you aren't happy. I'd always rather be in a union than out of one.

Also don't make the assumption that if you are in a union then everything will go your way. If you steal something they are not going to pat you on the head, give you false hope and stop you from getting fired. They will, however, advise you of your options.

Anyway, if you join a union, make it Unison. They aren't just for the public sector.

@Harpingon I vote Tory you don't need to pay the political part of union membership. And no, I haven't told my reps this.

@Elouera I don't know about any extra fees for certain sectors. I'm in the public sector and haven't had issues. Well, I tell a lie, the first time I needed help, my workplace rep was pretty shit although it still helped to be in a union. The second time round I was wiser and went to the branch secretary who then passed me onto the regional officer.

@indianbackground unison welcome third sector members too

@Abouttoblow the equality officer here says that's the most difficult issue for him as two equality groups effectively clash but he wouldn't say that to you.

@JosefKeller I had sick leave for a year. I had pre booked holidays. Instead of taking it out of my annual leave entitlement, my employer recorded it as sick leave but have paid me full pay all year. I think legally you can carry over annual leave accumulated during sick leave for up to 18 months or something like that. So I have a lot of annual leave I can take this year if I wanted to.

(in case anyone's wondering, I had a total breakdown last year, and I haven't been taking the pee)

@ChanklyBore anyone can join a union. If an employer doesn't recognise one, it doesn't mean you can't join one, or have one with you in formal meetings. You have the legal right to join a union if you wish.

Union reps can be very overwhelmed doing their own jobs alongside union work. Furthermore, as I said in my OP, some unhappy people may be expecting their union to do the impossible.

Unison failed to support me when I was discriminated against during pregnancy. I had email proof and they didn't want to know.

oh bugger, typed my username wrong, see 2 posts above

It has never occurred to me to join a union, the only people I have ever heard of who belong to one are teachers. I have absolutely no idea if my sector even has a union. If they do I have never heard the word union mentined in my working life

Can I ask why, if people DO have an HR department, they join a union?
The union is there to support the worker. HR is there to support the employer. This can, and often does, involve HR letting a line manager know that they are being unreasonable, but ultimately they are not there to have your back. Unions are not just an insurance policy. Mine recently secured a substantial pay increase for us (including all the people I work with who aren't in one). They campaign over working hours, maternity leave etc.
Being a workplace rep is a voluntary position. Some people expect a bit too much from them. But it must be very frustrating to have not got the help you were entitled to.

can I ask why, if people DO have an HR department, they join a union?

Because mine are utterly incompetent, even up to the head of HR in a very very big public sector organisation.

They've lost my paperwork, they breached GDPR, they refused me adjustments, they messed up my pay, they dragged their heels dealing with my complaints and they ignore OH advice.

I've only ever worked for small medium sized companies ( up until I formed my own business ) so I have no experience of large multi-nationals or the public sector. But the stark reality, in that commercial space, is that you take the package offered and if you're not happy , for what ever reason , then you find another job. Playing the barrack-room lawyer only gets you moved to the top of the redundancy list. Seen it happen.

Union reps aren't lawyers for the most part.

Don't take legal advice off them make them refer you to a panel solicitor as unison should

Some unions and reps are utter rubbish and have an ulterior motive

I’m an adjudicator in a labour court so deal with employment disputes and am independent of both companies and employees/their union.

I would never join a union.

This month alone, I’ve seen four separate cases that fell down due to mismanagement by the union.

On one, they cost their member dearly (in excess of £30k) by recommending that they decline a severance agreement to pursue an unfair dismissal case that was blatantly unfounded.

Oddly enough I joined a union today. An incident at work made it clear to me that one of the people I manage is working up a case against me / the organisation to cover for his own bullying, aggressive and misogynistic behaviour.

Unison were terrible when i needed them.

I'm a member of a union. It's a small price to pay to know they're there if I need them.

What a hypocrite! You're in a union and you vote Tory! Happy to use the union when it suits you but if you gave a shit about other workers' rights, you wouldn't vote Tory.

I'm a member of Unison. My rep is shit to be honest. I've given up on my grievance against HR as it's too stressful and the impact of doing it on my own with zero support is not worth the hassle.

Really glad that Unison have worked well for you, Op. They were terrible when my organisation merged, let down a huge percentage of the workforce.

Since then I have used ACAS and the legal advice from my home insurance, and it has worked really well for me.

I used to lead the employers side negotiating with all the TUs in the Public Sector. Never the less I was also a union member. Also encouraged others to do so, though discretely.
Great point above that so many employee rights have been eroded it’s not the Union Reps doing a bad job (mostly) just that the system weighs heavily for the employer.
Where they absolutely came into their own was in supporting the negotiation of my severance package. Their lawyers do that all day, every day. They pick up everything.

I’m not a member of a union, and never have been. Many of my colleagues are. I thoroughly dislike the political side of unions.
I do have savings set aside for legal advice should I ever need it - I feel that a legal representative is a better choice if I were to ever find myself in a dire situation than a colleague who likes to feel important as “union rep” ... if I was ever in the position of not having savings for such an event I may feel differently but it’s highly unlikely.

I'd rather join the Moonies than a union.

Not everyone will have the same positive experience as you OP.

On reading the opening post again, does anyone else think it’s a bit spammy?

Oh, it does a bit 🤔. Mind you, when I write posts about things that I like, I tend to sound like I work for them. And at least opinions from across the spectrum have been voiced anyway.

Unions are only worth joining if you're public sector or in a rare private sector organisation that recognises the union.

For the rest of us, you pay your fees and the union rep can only provide half assed general advice with no powers to do anything but accompany you to formal meetings.

It astounds me as someone who's only ever worked in private sector that anyone would be paid full sick pay for a year for any illness. I'm much more used to the 30 days sick pay max model, and if you actually took all of that in a year you'd probably be going through a formal performance/sickness review leading to being sacked.

I had virtually exactly the same situation as you... but a very different union

1. Attended meetings with me but didn’t speak
2. Advised me (when suicidal) to “just go back from sick leave so they can’t sack you”
3. Said legal team would ring me (3 times) as it was a complex case. Never heard from them.
4. Asked me to write a timeline (whilst severely depressed) to hand over to a new rep to save the previous one who was retiring having to do it.

I cancelled my RCN membership and resigned.

You're absolutely right, OP. As we head further in to the post-Brexit era and the government starts watering down employment rights, union membership will become ever more important.

Glad your experience was positive OP.

My experience was similar to @Rejected101 ‘s

My rep was in league with the management. I got passed onto another rep last minute. They didn’t even bother to read the files which cost me £40 to post to them 7 weeks earlier. My bully was protected throughout.

The union reps here are all for themselves and will sort out local issues to benefit themselves.

I’ve been a union member since I started. It was a waste of money.

Oh and try getting legal advice. They were not interested. Despite me having proof of procedures not being followed, managers lying and the bullying itself being ignored, they were not willing to even see me.

The company and the union are hand in hand. Bullying is widespread and nothing ever gets done.