Discussing suicide

[ICriedARiverOverYou]

Not AIBU, just not sure where to put this. As it appears to be so topical this weekend, can I ask that you think about language when discussing suicide.

Committed suggests crime and completed suggests success. Please don't use 'killed themselves'.

As someone who has been bereaved by suicide, the preferred term is 'died by suicide'.

tel:116-123 (Samaritans) for anyone who is struggling.

My sister died by choice - she refused kidney dialysis. She was 30 years old and not eligible for a transplant.

I think it is fair to say she killed herself. I have no problem with that terminology.

I am sorry for your loss, but please don't tell me how to describe my sister's death.

I agree with you Una I cringe inwardly when I hear that someone has ‘passed on’ or ‘passed away.’ It really doesn’t soften the blow, so I’m not sure why some people are so adverse to saying the word died.

But then I have a bit of an issue with the whole policing of our language and our thoughts and telling us what it is and is not okay to say or think.

Absolute pejoratives and insults aside, it’s bewildering and irritating having to keep abreast of constant changes in how we are expected to describe a person, be it their limited intellect, mental disability, physical disability, size, colour, race, combination of races, sexuality, gender identity, state of mental health, age, and ultimately how they die.

And who on earth makes these rules, anyway? What works for one person seems to upset someone else. I think so long as your language is accurate and reasonably factual and your words are not deliberately chosen to insult or offend, people should be free to speak and think as they like.

i think we should all use the terminology we prefer and feel comfortable with

not what an internet ransomer tries to tell us to use! i guess many of us have had suicides in our family/friendships,sadly

my mil always tells people her son committed suicide, shes fine with that so implying its disrespectful is just your opinion op.....we will do what we prefer thanks

There is no perfect terminology. I usually say he/she took their own life, but ultimately they were killed taking to early untimely death at their own hands.

I sometimes say my dad died from severe depression - this makes sense to me as it is what killed him - just as he could have died from something physical like cancer or a road accident. It helps me see it as something he couldn’t escape and didn’t choose. But everyone is different - it’s very personal.

I have also been bereaved by suicide more than once and prefer completed. What is for you is not for everyone so please don't speak for all of us.

I sometimes say my dad died from severe depression - this makes sense to me as it is what killed him That a the truth. He may have took his life depression made him.
People from all walks of life, some with very fine lifestyles.
I do believe most of those who take their life are not NT..everyone talks about over labelling DC these days though many on the spectrum take their life. I believe it is a chemical imbalance too.
As horrible as it sounds when my friend took her life 2 years ago, I wished there was a place like aokigahara forest, her death was horrendous though more horrendous is her 3 DD's living in their home where she done it. The eldest who found her on her lunch break has never opened her DM's bedroom door since.

It seems the OP feels they're the only one who has lost someone to suicide. Perhaps it is a recent and still raw thing and they will understand in time that other people with equally significant experience will use what words they want.

@ICriedARiverOverYou First of all I’m sorry for your loss. I’ve been bereaved through a suicide and our family say he killed himself or took his own life.
I agree with pps that you’ve not taken on board the many comments from other bereaved people which disagree with you. Just because you have terminology you prefer, doesn’t mean others have to agree. It’s a horrendously painful and complex thing for a family to go through and it’s not as straightforward as language being right or wrong.

I have experienced bereavement when family members or friends have committed suicide. I am fine with that term and would be very upset if anyone thought it is their place to 'correct' me. My family has more important things to worry about than semantics.

As someone who has been bereaved by suicide, the preferred term is 'died by suicide'.

Whose preferred term is 'died by suicide'? I am really sorry for your loss OP but I don't think it is up to you to decide on people's language in respect of suicide. You can only decide on your own language. Someone else may prefer different terminology.

I have been on a mental Health First Aid course where it was suggested that we use the term completed rather than committed suicide. That is not a term that sits well with me and I would never use it just as I would never say 'died by suicide'.

To me 'died' suggests something passive whereas 'suicide' is active.

I would say either:
Killed themselves.
Took their own life.
Committed suicide.

I see nothing wrong with these terms at all. They are factual. I can see why people aren't keen on the word 'committed' but really it just means that they vowed to do something and followed through on that decision.

I would suggest you use whatever term you want to but accept that others will use terms they prefer.

No-one is judging or being unkind or harsh. It is just a truth that you perhaps cannot face because of your grief.

They died from a mental, rather than a physical illness.
I understand what you are saying but, although they may have had a mental illness which led to them killing themselves, they actual died from whatever method they used. I'm sure the cause of death on their Death Certificate didn't list their mental llness at point 1a.

We need to encourage people to talk about these things very honestly if we are to remove the stigma attached to mental illnesses and prevent people from killing themselves. Wrapping things up in Mills and Boon type language doesn't do anything to further this cause. We need to talk about the harsh realities.

I personally think from my only close experience of recent suicide, that each individual should feel ok to feel however they want to. My friends dh 'died by his own hand'. His wife talks about him like he was the most selfish man alive. I dont nessasarly 100% agree and feel sick about how desperate he must have been. I dont want to be negative back, but neither dont disrespect her own emotions. I have my own feelings which I dont share with her. Both our thoughts, language and beliefs are valid.

However those in the immediate circle of grief are always to be put first. What they feel or think goes. You cant prescribe a individuals grief. There is no PC formula to follow.

No one should should like their own emotions or beliefs are wrong when its them in that inner circle. It's their choice to feel whatever they want to. Those in the outer circles should respect that.

Emerald that is just so awful and while obviously the poor woman was either not in her right mind or in an incredible amount of pain at the time it’s easy to see why, in some cases, people like Lego’s friend are left feeling an overwhelming feeling of anger at their loved one’s ‘selfishness’.

Lego I think you are right about the first circles needs and wishes versus everyone else.

Lots and lots of people have suffered loss through a friend or loved one’s suicide. It’s a bit arrogant to proclaim that there is only one officially sanctioned way to describe how that loss came about.

The most important thing is that people actually open up and talk about it if they've been affected by suicide.

Please be wary of possibly making people feel uncomfortable doing that.

This, times a hundred.

I work in suicide intervention. "Committed" is outdated and generally discouraged now.

Completed suicide and even suicided are two phrases suggested as acceptable but I don't particularly like either of those. To me, "completed" sounds like a menial task has been finished - I completed the ironing or something. Suicided just doesn't sound like good syntax to me.

I often use phrases like died by suicide or took his/her own life.

But at the end of the day, as long as people are talking about it, and using clear language (none of this "do something silly" rubbish), then I can't get too worked up about it.

With regard to the news you based this thread on I read that she'd died and assumed she'd had a heart attack or a car accident.

Probably because when my friend killed himself we all spoke about the fact he'd killed himself.

'Died by suicide' doesn't sit well with me.

I work in suicide intervention. "Committed" is outdated and generally discouraged now.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Some self appointed arbiters of politically correct language have decided this and the rest of us are somehow supposed to know how? Just because new terms come into being and some people find them preferable, doesn’t mean that existing terms are suddenly very bad form, unless there really are strong grounds for arguing that they are, eg. using mongol for people with DS.

I’ve never, ever heard the terms ‘completed suicide’ or ‘died by suicide’ until this thread and I’ll bet most people haven’t.

Just everyone learnt to say special needs it got changed to additional needs, and handicapped was ditched in favour of disabled which is now increasingly being abandoned in favour of differently abled. The thing is, handicapped and disabled mean exactly the same thing in this context and differently abled isn’t always an accurate description of the situation either.

And the arguments I’ve heard on here over the terminology to use when discussing people with ASD - even the people with ASD want to apply descriptors to themselves that the rest of are told are offensive and must not be used. They seem to revel in being ‘an autist’ whereas we are berated for saying anything other than ‘a person with XYZ condition.’

We’ve spend 40 years telling people not to call black people coloured and in recent years have mocked and derided older people who still routinely use the term, now suddenly the the US is full of ‘people of colour.’ Queer used to be an insult towards gay men and now it’s a legitimate term included in the ultra PC and inclusive LGBTQI umbrella.
It’s no wonder people lose patience and interest, really.

When people sense that they are being patronised or made to feel ashamed or foolish for not being up to speed with ‘appropriate’ terminology arbitrarily opposed on us by god knows who, it merely makes them feel defensive and serves to further alienate them from the very people and situations we are aiming to promote better understanding and acceptance of.

**“...none of this "do something silly" rubbish”

Maybe that “rubbish” is the easiest way for someone contemplating suicide to open up about it?

My dad took his own life (my preferred - however “flowery” - way of describing it) but when discussing my own thoughts around taking my life, many years ago now, I did use the term “do something silly”. I also talked about it in terms of others being better off without me. I just couldn’t bring myself to say I was thinking about killing myself or taking my own life. I rarely use the word suicide but each to their own.

Agree with PP about patience and interest. I struggle to keep up with whatever is deemed politically correct and have never heard completed suicide or died by suicide.

My mum killed herself when I was a teenager. I am ok with that terminology. Or sometimes I say she committed suicide. I am ok with that terminology too. I won’t have anyone tell me how to describe my mums death.

WhereShallWeMoveTo I agree with every word of your post. Well said.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. Some self appointed arbiters of politically correct language have decided this and the rest of us are somehow supposed to know how? Just because new terms come into being and some people find them preferable, doesn’t mean that existing terms are suddenly very bad form, unless there really are strong grounds for arguing that they are, eg. using mongol for people with DS

Most people won't care what terminology you use as long as it's not offensive.

As a mental health worker I'm not going to pull up a service user on their choice of words. I just want them to speak openly so I can help.

I have however, been sat in CPD talks where the speaker has repeatedly used the phrase "commit suicide" and you can visibly see people recoil. There's usually a quiet word had afterwards.

It's just progression, like your other examples are and I completely agree. It's to do with removing the criminality of the act and likely something you'd only be aware of if you work in MH circles. My organisation has a suicide support service and is involved heavily with the media in terms of correct reporting of such incidents, which also includes getting the language right

@WhereShallWeMoveTo I agree with every word of your post. Brilliantly put.

*Maybe that “rubbish” is the easiest way for someone contemplating suicide to open up about it?

My dad took his own life (my preferred - however “flowery” - way of describing it) but when discussing my own thoughts around taking my life, many years ago now, I did use the term “do something silly”. I also talked about it in terms of others being better off without me. I just couldn’t bring myself to say I was thinking about killing myself or taking my own life. I rarely use the word suicide but each to their own*

Apologies, I meant as a MH worker speaking to a service user rather than the other way round. We often (successfully, thankfully) have to read between the lines to get to the real intent behind what people are saying and that's fine, it's what we're here for and it's incredibly hard to talk about.

What I meant was that we wouldn't then follow it up with "are you going to do something silly?" because that's very open to different interpretation. We use clear black and white language so there's no confusion.

A similar example I use is when my friend told me they lost their dog. I had no idea whether he'd gone missing or had died