Helping friends and family with serious MH issues. Reach out and talk vs being told you’re draining.

[PhoneTwattery]

Caroline’s death has really got me thinking. I’m fed up of the outpouring of motivational posts on FB saying “reach out to me”, “my kettle is always on”, “don’t suffer in silence, reach out” with the obligatory urges to share.

In reality people feel they’ve then done their bit by sharing these recycled posters/memes on social media but do they and would they follow through?

Caroline allegedly reached out to a friend in October only to be told she was “draining”.

My worry is whether everybody is emotionally equipped to deal with another person’s MH when it’s at a critical level. In all honesty, those who have loved ones with severe MH issues know that in reality, away from all the popular social media motivational bullshit posts, it CAN be draining and you can really find yourself out of your depth.

AIBU to say that as much as you may utterly love a person with MH issues you can absolutely find yourself out of your depth and drained when you’ve tried everything, you love them dearly but nothing you do will ever help?

My worry is whether everybody is emotionally equipped to deal with another person’s MH when it’s at a critical level. In all honesty, those who have loved ones with severe MH issues know that in reality, away from all the popular social media motivational bullshit posts, it CAN be draining and you can really find yourself out of your depth

I think this is very true, and I think we’ve all had times where we don’t know what to say to someone. I don’t know the answer.

Calling someone ‘draining’ is harsh and thoughtless and I think most people would know not to say that, even if they felt it.

It's more draining to know you are beyond anybody's help, even your own.

We seem to always be told 2 very important things.

1-when you need ti, reach out and talk to someone. If they are a good friend they will drop everything to listen to you (this is regularly said on threads here).

2-look after yourself. Set boundaries and say no if needed. You come first. You cant pour from an empty cup.

It's very difficult for the two to go hand in hand.

The thing with MH is knowing when it's beyond you. Ive been on both sides of the equation, I've been the one saying "i can't cope" and I've been the person someone came to when they needed help. In both cases, the next stage was that the 'helper' said "sit down, have a piece of cake, lets make a GP's appointment/call the Sams/look online for therapy apps/dropins and start getting you better."

That is the crucial bit, getting ACTUAL help. Just venting won't help, and can be very draining for the 'helper'.

So true, OP.

Trying to safeguard a friend with many ongoing issues is utterly exhausting.

Sadly, there comes a time when for the sake of your own MH and your family you have to step back. Not step away but not be always available.

Saying ‘you can always reach out to me’ after someone has committed suicide is (I believe) often a genuine thought, but it also subtly shifts the blame onto the person who has committed suicide. “If only they had talked to someone/me this wouldn’t have happened; because they didn't talk they ended up killing themselves”.

In my experience this is ridiculously naive: the three people I know who committed suicide did have multiple safe people to talk to, personal and professional, did talk and receive therapy/treatment, their problems were well known. It really isn’t that simple.

My friend is seriously ill with MH issues but avoids people a lot and tries to hide it. I did see her on Friday because I’ve had a bereavement and I told her I know how unwell she is. I think she needs a psychiatrist as all she has had is ADs which clearly don’t work and 6 weeks of counselling for years of depression. I’ve said she needs to see a GP and ask for a referral and have offered to go with her or said her partner could and I’ll look after the kids. Is there anything else I can do? I’m always available for her but she always cancels and avoids.

I think people who post that kind of thing have no idea what they’re talking about. Truly empathic listeners - someone who
is able to be genuinely focused on you, not trying to solve your problems, not trying to minimise what you say because of their own anxiety, not talk about their own experiences, just fully present for and accepting of whatever you want to say - are incredibly rare. And they probably aren’t the kind of people who would post “my kettle is always on” on Facebook.

And I agree with Purplewithred that this is extremely complex. I have known 3 people who committed suicide; two were in therapy and had been for years, one was a psychologist.

It depends on who you reach out to. I am one of our work based MH first aiders and have been given "permission" to take time out of my day job to listen to people who are experiencing a MH episode. My role is to alert relevant people and signpost - not to make it better (that is waaaaay out of my remit).
My colleagues take up the slack on my day job & any contact time is treated as work time, so I don't feel under additional pressure in my work or home environment as a result. It gives me space to listen and act on a persons immediate needs. For work it saves the cost of having employees off on long term sick. In this environment I have all the time in the world.

However I have been in a situation where I had a friend ringing me every single night saying they were going to commit suicide. Usually once they had drunk the extra bottle of wine. It impacted on my home life and work life sue to my lack of sleep. My friend was not working so slept all day. After several months I had to step away from the friendship - I had got to the point where they were going in circles, rejecting any help (Professional MH services and alcohol addiction services were involved) and not respecting that I also had a life beyond their 2am calls. It was frustrating and I often think of them, if only to hope they didn't carry through with their threats.

I no longer do the " just call I am always here" schmuck unless I mean it and can commit the time and energy to support someone no matter what. I do get people coming to me - but I tend to do the quick unpacking of need and subsequent signposting to professional services.

That is the crucial bit, getting ACTUAL help. Just venting won't help, and can be very draining for the 'helper'

This.

I have almost unlimited patience for anyone looking for practical support, or even to vent alongside getting practical support. What I can’t handle, and have to step away from, is someone who vents and vents and vents but won’t do anything.

I've posted on previous threads like this. When my family member committed suicide after years of upset, there were no doors open.
Even mine. I was worried she'd hurt my kids, take them or hurt herself in front of them.
I still have other members put up these door open fb posts and I think no you didn't want to deal at all.
I'm not sure what we could have done though in the end. The professionals couldn't help, downgraded the risk and released.
We are a big family, so many people at the funeral, and where were they. In our own little safe bubble

I also think people miss the crucial part. When a person is totally embroiled in MH issues it can be so hard to reach out because they don’t want to be a burden. Plus they don’t know what they’re reaching out FOR.

What @helpwithhouse said is spot on. These days we are constantly told to look after number 1 and it's hard to find balance

In honesty I'm not a good person for someone to come to, not for them but for me. I end up worrying about the other person so much and losing sleep/have the weirdest dreams about them and it is draining. But if I suggest a qualified counsellor I'm the bad guy who wont listen/help

@Karwomannghia

Is there anything else I can do?

In this case, no. Probably not. You sound like an amazing friend but if you could crack the enigma of helping someone with MH issues then you’d be a millionaire. It’s such a sad and complex issue.

When a person is totally embroiled in MH issues it can be so hard to reach out because they don’t want to be a burden

This, exactly. I've had severe depression, I've been suicidal, and a major part of that was feeling worthless and a waste of everyone's time. Even using MH services made me feel guilty for taking up time that could go to someone more "derserving" (ie anyone but me, Worst Person Ever). Not seeking support is a symptom for many people I think.

I think that this:

We seem to always be told 2 very important things. 1-when you need ti, reach out and talk to someone. If they are a good friend they will drop everything to listen to you (this is regularly said on threads here). 2-look after yourself. Set boundaries and say no if needed. You come first. You cant pour from an empty cup.

And this:

That is the crucial bit, getting ACTUAL help. Just venting won't help, and can be very draining for the 'helper'.

I read the post where the word ‘draining’ was mentioned, and - honestly - my first thought was ‘I wonder what the other side of that interaction is?’

Because the fact is that someone with MH problems (not talking about anyone specific here) can need significant input, and for most people providing that level of input can become all-encompassing, especially when, in some cases, it almost seems to ‘feed’ the person’s problems rather than help them, or encourage them to seek or properly engage with appropriate self-help, treatment, and/or therapy. I’ve been there. I had to walk away.

Ok thanks. I know too well there are no magic answers from family members unfortunately but I’m hoping there might still be light at the end of the tunnel with more intensive therapy and the right medication?
She’s just trapped in this misery with a toxic family (mother and siblings) and keeps saying she wants to go. But she won’t do it because of her kids so she’s living in hell basically.

Yes all the ‘be kind always’ stuff and similar mental health support posts on social media are a load of rubbish

In general most people only want to appear to be kind helpful and supportive. The reality is most people are only out for themselves and gossip and drag down people or ignore them when in need.

I know myself first hand. When I’ve been depressed - nobody was there.
Family members who said ‘I’m always here for you’ ignored any messages so I gave up yet it’s the same ones who I have supported myself and given up a lot of time for when the tables were turned

We teach our children in schools to be kind and that everyone is different to always be accepting and nice and then those in control at these establishments will rip parents to shreds putting their mental health in jeopardy for the stupidest things, so we say one things and do another it seems
Social media outpourings of this sort of gushing kindness are just a way of self promoting what a great individual you are but 9/10 with no substance to it and it’s actually making the problem a million times worse.
Imagine you’re seriously depressed and all you see is these messages-everyone’s ready to help right? But nobody responds to you, nobody notices you haven’t posted anything in ages, nobody notices they haven’t seen you for months, nobody calls , nothing so you are already depressed and then it’s worse because despite all the ‘offers’ and ‘invitations’ to contact and they’ll help you don’t even seem to be noticed or visible so feel more worthless.

Everything that's already been said. Also, MH provision in the UK is already groaning: it is quite likely that a person who does reach out and is committed to getting support then finds themselves put on a waiting list or told after a 10 minute interview that they're not ill enough to qualify because the doctor who sees them knows bloody well that there simply are no slots in his diary.

In general most people only want to appear to be kind helpful and supportive. The reality is most people are only out for themselves and gossip and drag down people or ignore them when in need.

This.

But the look good on FB right?

*they

I completely agree. I suffer badly with anxiety and have bad days and good days. A couple of weeks ago I was having a rough week and I reached out to a friend (best friend who knows a lot about me) over text and she literally just replied 'oh no, I'm feeling a bit down this week too'
It is difficult because I don't have many people who I feel I can open up about my feelings too and then when I do I feel as if other people just don't care.
Sorry, not meaning to make this thread about me and I have NEVER felt suicidal and am fine in the grand scheme of things. But it hurts to feel like people don't care.

I have been on both sides of this I suffer from depression and GAD but also had a best friend of 20+ years who suffered from depression and a personality disorder. I tried to be there through years of self harm, suicide attempts and destructive behaviour (she also used to bully me alot when we were teens) but she would never take advice to seek professional help. She would want me to drop everything and travel down to support her and usually would just want me to get drunk with her whilst she vented and have me around so she didn't go completely off the rails, I was pretty frightened at times of which way her mood would go.

It got to the point I was having panic attacks everytime I saw her name flash up on my phone and eventually after some really destructive behaviours I realised I couldn't cope with the relationship anymore and had to end our friendship to preserve my own MH. I do completely wish her the best and hope she does find help but I was not equipped to cope and I felt myself cracking under the pressure. I really don't know what else I could have done.

Yeah, talk is cheap. Especially when it comes after the event. It's more about the person saying it anyway, it makes them believe there wasn't anything they could've done as they weren't asked for 'help'- whatever that means. Just talk. Yeah that'll fix it.
I can't say too much because suicidal talk transgresses guidelines here and will be deleted, but the samaritans number just being dropped in doesn't help, either. You can spill your guts and someone will just run in with that phone number and run out again. You might as well just be told to fuck off. Personally, I wouldn't ring it and I won't.

I feel so sorry for the friend who stayed with Caroline (because she was so worried about her MH), only for Caroline to take her own life while her friend went to the shops.