Helping friends and family with serious MH issues. Reach out and talk vs being told you’re draining.

[PhoneTwattery]

Caroline’s death has really got me thinking. I’m fed up of the outpouring of motivational posts on FB saying “reach out to me”, “my kettle is always on”, “don’t suffer in silence, reach out” with the obligatory urges to share.

In reality people feel they’ve then done their bit by sharing these recycled posters/memes on social media but do they and would they follow through?

Caroline allegedly reached out to a friend in October only to be told she was “draining”.

My worry is whether everybody is emotionally equipped to deal with another person’s MH when it’s at a critical level. In all honesty, those who have loved ones with severe MH issues know that in reality, away from all the popular social media motivational bullshit posts, it CAN be draining and you can really find yourself out of your depth.

AIBU to say that as much as you may utterly love a person with MH issues you can absolutely find yourself out of your depth and drained when you’ve tried everything, you love them dearly but nothing you do will ever help?

My worry is whether everybody is emotionally equipped to deal with another person’s MH when it’s at a critical level. In all honesty, those who have loved ones with severe MH issues know that in reality, away from all the popular social media motivational bullshit posts, it CAN be draining and you can really find yourself out of your depth

You are so right OP and I feel exactly the same as you do. As someone who lived with someone with severe depression for a long time, it is draining, it's a long-term commitment and no one on the brink of suicide feels better after a cup of coffee with an acquaintance. You have to REALLY love someone to stick by them through those intensely unhappy days that may never come to an end, and - and I mean this with the best will in the world - depression often goes hand in hand with being quite a difficult or ungrateful person. It's not a criticism, it's just the nature of the beast. It's hard to truly support someone in that position and requires a great deal of love, self-sacrifice and patience.
This social media virtue signalling, where everyone makes sure they're seen to be sympathetic, is grotesque and inauthentic- and, in my personal experience, is often shared by the worst offenders - the bitchy school run mums and dads, the office gossips, the judgemental family members. Complete hypocrites.

A couple of weeks ago I was having a rough week and I reached out to a friend (best friend who knows a lot about me) over text and she literally just replied 'oh no, I'm feeling a bit down this week too'
It is difficult because I don't have many people who I feel I can open up about my feelings too and then when I do I feel as if other people just don't care This is really sad. I am sorry you were feeling low, Maybe your friend was down stress and unable to listen ATT.
I think when you're in the mist of it, it is hard to acknowledge another.
Did you reply sympathetically as she was feeling down or did it just make you feel like she didn't care.

Agree totally except those posts barely register with me, tbf i dont see them much. I was bereaved 2 years ago by suicide and have been blamed by others for the death despite being the one who was there for 15 fucking years. Meaningless posts about the kettle being on are just so much fluff - they presumably havent seen a person in a full on psychotic episode and thank goodness they havent.

CinnabarRed I totally agree with your post. I also have a lot of patience when people have MH issues, but, like you, I find it frustrating and, I hate to say it, draining, when they just go round and round in circles and are happy to offload to friends/ family but won’t seek professional help.
TBH I just don’t know how to handle it anymore. Then I feel guilty and worried that I’m not doing enough.

@PermanentTemporary I am so sorry for your loss and stigma.
Some people just can't cope in this world all the tea and talking won't deter their plan once they've decided.

I agree so much with PP.
I never share those sort of things and would be wary of saying "call anytime" because past experiences have taught me how hard it can be to support severe mh issues. I would never call someone draining, but I have felt it.
My dad has ongoing long-term MH problems, which have a massive impact on those around him. My mother has stayed with him and supported him but at great cost to her and others. I don't know if I could do it.
After I left university I shared a home with two friends from uni, one of whom developed severe depression, to the point she regularly hurt herself and talked about suicide. My other friend and I accompanied her to gp and MH appointments, listened to her and spent our non working hours with her (she didn't sleep at that point) to try to prevent her from hurting herself. The crisis team was little help as her situation was judged not serious enough to need inpatient care. It took a massive toll on us. In the end, we had to get her family involved - luckily she had family, who were able and willing to help and she did agree to it, but it was hard even then, and not everyone has family they can reach out to. I'm not in close touch with her now, she went through a bad time again with her mh a few years ago but I had a poorly prem baby at the time and had to step back. I know I will always feel guilty on some level for that, and we're no longer close so I know she feels I let her down.
People's situations aren't always solvable, professional services are stretched or non existent, and sadly mental health issues are often chronic and long term and people are not willing or able to seek professional help.

I do see what you mean

And with regards to friends not being emotionally equipped well I can only speak from my experience but I have a matter who has borderline personality disorder and I can't cope with her to be honest. I can't articulate it all. Obviously I've been there for her but then something happens she'll say one thing all the time then then next minute another which makes it hard to know what's going on and to trust. I feel like however much I try to help her I can't. She reaches out you're there and then she doesn't want you anymore and acts like she's fine. And I don't know if other people can or not as I don't know her other friend but I'm surprised if they can

The guilt is actually helped a little because I took my dh to be assessed at the hospital and he seemed ok to them, sent him back to be looked after by me and he was dead within 3 hours. If they couldn't spot he was on the edge how is anyone else supposed to.

I would say, be a friend if you can but it is better to be a consistent friend who does what they can do regularly and involving actual contact - say a monthly phone call or meeting for a day every six months for years on end however psychotic your friend is - than try to do the job of an acute psychiatric nurse and end up unable to cope with it.

I don’t know where the balance is tbh.
I’m friends with someone who says your own unhappiness is your own fault and that you should look after yourself first.

With so much mental health perspective I think those sorts of comments are incredibly damaging and beyond idiotic.

When I read about this suicide I just thought now her suffering is over. I have absolute sympathy but in a different way to regular folk. I am someone with a long history of intervention for MH issues including being an in patient. All linked to very severe violent and sexual abuse as a child and young woman , my stepfather attempted to strangle each and my Mother ignored my plea for help, she was also very violent. I then married a very abusive man but escaped in my twenties.

I have spent all these years appearing a bit odd but desperately trying to hide it. The only person after a ten year friendship who I started to tell could not handle it at all. I hadn’t even got in to any significant detail.

So I know hiding my issues is the acceptable thing I just go off grid for a bit when very unwell, I don’t seek solace in any of my friends. I’m incredibly lucky that I do have lots of friends which is quite unusual for people with severe MH issues. I have been on a very big group therapy programme , been an in patent and and gone to community support groups and lack of friends is a common theme when discussing stuff.

I despise social media for all the tick here if you support whatever the good cause is as it means absolutely nothing.

Virtue signalling is a way for people to feel better about themselves whilst not actually doing anything. I’m currently in a very bad MH episode. I have direct access to an NHS MH service. They have said I will receive ongoing support for life. I made a young counsellor cry once when I told her some stuff, my one attempt with a friend failed. I know I’m alone apart from my psychiatric team. I have told DH some stuff but he finds it too upsetting, feels helpless and gets stressed.

I've have a close friend who has severe depression brought on by a huge life event. I have had mental health issues in the past and when she first started to have problems I tried to be as supportive as I could because I didn't want her to feel as alone as I have felt in the past. However, I never envisaged how hard it would be to do that. Now several months down the line, I frequently bounce between feeling like I need to step away because it's not good for my own well-being, and feeling like I would be abandoning her if I did step away. She is undergoing treatment and on AD but is still hard to be around at times.

I feel like all this #bekind is easy to type but in reality it's not actually always such an easy thing to do.

So in this thread, we've said you need to offer to be there and mean it, but at the same time that someone going through a depressive period can be overwhelmingly draining in a way that isn't easy to deal with without ramifications for the helper.

What's the answer? Be there as much as you can and then try to direct them to medical professionals? What if they're not interested? I would always want to help my friends but I have a young family and a stressful job. I can imagine being in this position and having to push back and then something awful happening and the guilt that must ensue. I guess really there is no answer except do what you can?

Flack was obviously going through something awful and had some friends who couldn't deal with it. She also had a friend with her and it wasn't enough. She needed professional help.

I think sometimes being kind is insisting that the person needs professional help and that they are being unfair by putting this on other people. I wont support people who aren't also seeking professional help because I'm not a mental health professional and in my line of work, we understand our remits and refer to people better qualified to help when someone has needs outside of our capabilities. I can be a good friend. I cannot be a psychotherapist or psychiatrist.

All this ‘it’s good to talk’ is about abdicating the role of the state in mental health and putting it on the individual.
Most of us, can have all the compassion in the world but aren’t equipped to deal with someone suicidal , talking and making tea is not enough.

Exactly. Meanwhile your self harming depressed teen gets zero help. People need professional help, families need support,it costs money.

Valkadin

I think the problem is, once you are so ill you are suicidal you need professional help. It's completely beyond family or friends to be able to help. Mental health services are chronically underfunded. Also I think Caroline must have had significant mental health problems for her to behave the way she did. There was a lot of blood on the bed, she had had issues with violence in previous relationships and what she wore to court was considered inappropriate. I don't think it's the press' fault. I think it's the fault of the lack of consistent mental illness treatment. It does make me angry that the care she needed wasn't provided much sooner, when the issues first became apparent.

To be truthful, I think we’re at a place where there are too many stresses and problems affecting people’s MH for the fabric of society to cope.

Generally, people’s friends and family are often stretched, stressed and pushed for time themselves, unable to offer much and even if they can, they don’t really know what to do.

Professional services are also stretched. In an age of cutbacks, there just aren’t enough free to access services to go around, whether they are state or charity provided, plus the fact of the cutbacks means there are more pressures that cause MH issues in the first place anyway.

Even paid services are under pressure. I looked for a counsellor after a bereavement a couple of years back. Lots of people I contacted said they had a waiting list. Lots of others didn’t even bother replying to an email or text or voicemail I left enquiring about their services- which I think shows pretty shockingly low professional standards and awareness given their choice of job. At least 50% of counsellor/therapists I contacted didn’t reply. Others were very heavy handed upfront about stressing their boundaries re time/scope of help, much more emphasis on that than outlining how services could help.. Of course it’s fine to have those boundaries, but to lead so strongly with that sets the wrong tone for someone in distress, it’ll make them feel unwanted or a burden even though they are paying for a service.

I think it says a lot about where we are as a society. I’ve read that the more inequality there is in a society, the higher the rates of mental health issues will be. Because the more inequality, the more problems there are and the less help there is available, it’s a vicious circle.

I think we’re at a point where we just can’t cope as a whole. It’s just impossible to strike the right balance if being there for yourself and also there for others who need you.

Just to add, never mind how social media is adding a whole new layer of scrutiny and pressure, and we haven’t worked out how to properly act on that yet.

I certainly haven't said you should offer to be there and mean it. I think it's totally fine to accept that that you are not the right audience for someone's illness, and to make it clear that all you can offer is the occasional cup of tea and sympathy. In fact I'd caution others to think very carefully before offering more than this - whatever you offer needs to be sustainable. Pretty crap to say you'll be there whenever then not follow through.

It also shows a lack of understanding of what mental illness is. Talking to someone isn't enough. You need proper medical diagnosis and treatment. You wouldn't expect a cancer patient to cure themselves by talking. Mild depression, you can probably get away with talking therapy. But I consider depression to be a serious illness because it can kill. Lots of other mental illness and personality disorders need proper and thorough medical treatment by doctors.

I've been there with people with depression of varying levels of severity and in most cases I have had to walk away because it is an invidious position to be in when you are giving, everyone is taking and no-one is there for you. You cannot be a substitute for an actual professional and an actual person in a position to diagnose someone.

There is also the fact that many people with poor MH won't engage professional service as they don't trust them or have been harmed by them in the past - there is also the factor if the ill person is also a difficult person as well but you cannot always tell the illness from themselves.

There is so much that could be done to at least mitigate poor MH and spiraling - like jobseeking and unemployment. Anyone can be unemployed for any reason so why make it so punitive. Do sanctions make a person more efficient at jobseeking? Does the threat of sanctions make an unemployed person suddenly more attractive to an employer. Would cutting off Wi-Fi and the means of transport help unemployed people with bad MH?

To be honest though, people with severe mental health issues often are draining and frustrating and bloody hard to deal with. That is why properly funded services are so vital. Most people are not adequately equipped to deal with ill people and by the time it gets to the point of suicide, a chat isn’t going to cut it.

Fwiw, and I have no qualifications in this area beyond a family member committing suicide, I think three things should happen:

(i) children should be taught how to look after their own mental health in schools from an early age, just as they are taught about healthy eating and exercise so: some information on the way our brains work, mindfulness, resilience, basic CBT methods etc and the importance of exercise to produce endorphins etc, importance of social networks etc. Also , call me old fashioned but imho DC should be taught to challenge the values they are fed daily on social media, such as lip fillers will make you happy. Above all early intervention regarding mh issues should be paramount. The CAMHS system is so under resourced it's not fit for purpose but as most mh issues first manifest themselves at a young age, this is a ridiculous and dangerous false economy.

(ii) for low level mental illness (obviously not talking about serious conditions such as anorexia, bi-polar, schizophrenia etc which need professional help ) the dialogue should change from "reach out" to "how can I help myself?". I have a family member who works in this field who says there is an idea out there that somehow the answer to most mh problems lie outside of ourselves , that going in to a mental health hospital is an instant cure all (but there's no places because only the most serious cases are admitted) , when 80% of the time, treatment is most effective and enduring when the patients are taught to help themselves (with intermittent support from medical professionals where necessary). So a national campaign/ dialogue to spread this information would be helpful but it has to be backed up with better my support in the community

(iii) linked to the above must be hugely improved resources and support systems linked to primary care, accessible through a gp, such as talking therapies, self-help groups etc so people are given kick-starts and ongoing support while helping themselves. Why not have specialist mh GPS in each surgery?

That's not to say that one shouldn't reach out to a friend or colleague in need, but someone doing that ATM does so in the dark to some extent, not knowing where to turn. And when they do get the person who is suffering to reach out to a gp etc, depending on your post code, they have to wait for a long time or treatment is limited to half a dozen CBT sessions.

Above and beyond the practical points above, I think we need a wider discussion about societal values. Why are DC in the UK some of the unhappiest in the world? Is it because our society is dominated by consumerism? Is it because our playing fields and parks have been sold off to developers? Is it because our DC are under constant pressure to succeed academically , and are bombarded with unrealistic ideas of how they should look and behave on social media? Who in government is addressing this issue and how?

I lost a parent to suicide.

I find the My kettle is always on, repost this to show someone is always listening #suicideawareness platitudes distressing and insulting. Sometimes suicide comes out of nowhere. It isn't the fault of those around the person. It isn't because they didn't have their kettle on or didn't listen or didn't tell them how much they mattered. Sometimes suicide is done for families as the person's wonky thinking makes them think their family would be better off without them (they wouldn't). They may want to end the pain but not their life. There are a million complex reasons for it.

To those who have bravely shared their stories on this thread today, about your struggles, to you. I hope you all find the support that you need.