To ask if you drank alcohol during pregnancy

[Butterflyflower1234]

I'm curious as to people thoughts on alcohol during pregnancy?

I was always of the opinion that I wouldn't touch a single drop of alcohol during pregnancy but now I'm wondering would it be significantly harmful to have say one small glass of wine with dinner every so often (less than once a fortnight).

@ bowkerchops sorry for your loss but congratulations on adopting your DS.

Surely that's probably more harmful than having a few drinks at once due to the consistency exposure?

No, binge drinking is worse than having a single drink occasionally.

The car analogy only works if the car crashes every time

I’ve spoken about people not understanding risk and then you come on and so perfectly illustrate the point!

The car analogy only works if the car crashes every time.

No crash, no risk to child.

A crash, some risk to child. Most car crashes are minor with minor injuries to passengers. Modern cars are heavily engineered towards safety.

The numbers of unborn children harmed in this way are tiny. The most recent death of a unborn child in a car accident that I professionally know of, was where the pregnant woman was a cyclist.

DC1 - not a drop.
DC2 - one vodka at a hen do 7 months gone and one wine at the wedding at 8 months gone.

Both my DC are 18+ so advice was very different then back in the days when you could smoke on a bus / carry your baby home from hospital in a car on your lap.

The car analogy only works if the car crashes every time.

Again, this would only be true if you knew in advance of the journey whether the car was going to crash or not. If you're taking the view that any one instance of alcohol consumption is a risk because you think that one instance could harm the baby, you have to also take the same view of getting in a car which we know carries a risk of crashing.

The numbers of unborn children harmed in this way are tiny.

Not as tiny as the numbers harmed by the very occasional drink.

You can’t demonstrate that this is any. Despite your very best efforts to evidence it.

Any more links for us?

@LaurieMarlow

It's not that I don't understand risk so much as you're determined to actively minimise the gravity of FAS.

Do you know anybody living with it?

If you don't, what I have found to be similar in experience for relatives is the early stages of dementia. Imagine that for the whole if a persons life- and that is the mild, high functioning form.

It's not that I don't understand risk so much as you're determined to actively minimise the gravity of FAS.

Nowhere has anyone said FAS isn’t awful. Can you go back and quote where you think this is happening?

That accusation is totally out of order.

People saying there's no proof of harm don't get that the reason there's no proof is because it's unethical to even do the study because we know alcohol harms babies. What we don't know is the dose response and we never will because it's completely unethical to do so.

It's not that I don't understand risk

Lol.

so much as you're determined to actively minimise the gravity of FAS.

I’m really not. I get that it’s a terrible thing to live with.

However, we never get anywhere unless we deal with the realities of the situation. Which is that no evidence whatsoever suggests that very occasional drinking causes FAS.

Let’s focus on what actually does increase FAS risk.

It's out of order, but she's backed herself into a corner. Can't provide any evidence, so play the woman not the ball, try to appeal to emotion and hope nobody notices that you've still failed to back up your claims.

yes but not often, the nhs guidelines at the time were 1 or 2 units per week and no eating nuts.

You
Any more links for us?

That level of flippancy suggests that you have no experience of it.

Just a determination to be right.

If we were talking about autism, Down's syndrome, cerebral palsy, spina bifida or congenital heart defects, would you take a risk?

People saying there's no proof of harm don't get that the reason there's no proof is because it's unethical to even do the study because we know alcohol harms babies

Of course I get that.

However in more circumstantial evidence we have entire countries who’s drinking guidelines are less restrictive than ours. France for example. Do they have higher instances of FAS? I’ve never heard that.

If we were talking about autism, Down's syndrome, cerebral palsy, spina bifida or congenital heart defects, would you take a risk?

Are we playing disability bingo now?

That level of flippancy suggests that you have no experience of it. Just a determination to be right.

Yes, this would count as playing the woman not the ball.

Do they have higher instances of FAS? I’ve never heard that.

Yes, higher levels of drinking are correlated with higher instances of FAS. The countries with the highest alcohol consumption have more FAS as you’d expect.

There’s still no evidence that at the very low level of drinking (one occasionally) FAS has ever happened.

Not a drop, but I don’t drink regularly (I’m a binge drinker once a year if I’m lucky!). No judgement of anyone who did/does have the odd drink during pregnancy, it’s just not for me.

You know what we're absolutely certain constitutes a risk to the foetus? Taking a car journey.

The French also advise abstinence during pregnancy.

The idea of French women quaffing merlot is massively outdated.

The French also advise abstinence during pregnancy

Only relatively recently

You know what we're absolutely certain constitutes a risk to the foetus? Taking a car journey.

But that doesn’t count.

Because ... reasons ...

I notice you haven’t quoted anyone minimising the impact of FAS on a child yet.

Don’t worry, I’ll remind you about it in a bit.

People saying there's no proof of harm don't get that the reason there's no proof is because it's unethical to even do the study because we know alcohol harms babies. What we don't know is the dose response and we never will because it's completely unethical to do so.

^This