...to not understand why so many parents post constantly wondering why their child wakes through the night?

[sleepingtroub]

Post after post.
"My child is 5mo and wakes during the night to feed"
"How can I implement a routine on my 5week old?"
"How can I get my 6mo to sleep in their own room without waking up"

When did it get to this?

These are all normal things.

Before I was even old enough to have a child I was fully aware of the concept: baby = no sleep
Obviously it's not as bad as that 24/7 but why are so many parents expecting their old sleep routines to continue when they have a baby?

I hate when people go “you just need a good bedtime routine with a bath!” Because they were lucky enough to have a DC who was a good sleeper and they somehow think This was all down to a bath before bed.

I bathed DS as little as possible because far from relaxing him it led to absolute hysterics. He was a pretty good sleeper though until four months when it became hellish as he woke constantly. Not helped by the HV seeming completely oblivious that this was a thing and making me feel at fault.

Co-sleeping was about getting through it, I was more likely to think about the phrase rod for your own back than what people in other countries do. Still, it helped, and I got rid of feeling like I shouldn’t be doing it when I read a bit more.

It helped me in the same way as pp go from feeling nearly dead tired to manageable.

Just more blame tbh

Saying getting stressed about it causing more problems isn't blaming ffs!

It's a fact! You may not like to hear it, you may think it's blaming....but that's your issue.

Tbh karencantobe I suspect you will find that it’s just as inaccurate to suggest that only people living in poverty in “other cultures” cosleep. There will be others who do too, for the same reasons as people in the UK

Limensoda I’m afraid you’re the one coming across as the one with the issue - I’m not the one putting yet more pressure on other parents for how their children sleep or how they react to it

I think i understand what you mean, parents don't seem to be told what normal/average sleeping patterns are and then seem to think they are doing something wrong or missing a trick, not helped by people pushing books and classes and other people claiming baby sleeps through when the reality is they have a feed at midnight then sleep till 6 ect.
I'm actually one of the lucky ones this time around my lo genuinely sleeps from about 1945 till about 630 most nights only occasionally waking for a night feed but its pure luck ive done everything the same as i did for my now 3year old and he woke in the night every night right up till he was 2 and still does maybe once a week. Id probably tell an expectant mom it will be something like every 2hrs at first, then maybe they'll get a 4hr stretch and then maybe 6hrs as they get older any more and you've struck baby gold.
Oh and to the people bashing the OP she's not having a go at the mom's she's concerned the professionals don't provide realistic information

@IvinghoeBeacon I know some people choose to cosleep. But it is always presented as the natural choice because for example particular tribes cosleep. Without actually acknowledging the context.
And having separate rooms as bedrooms was only true for a tiny tiny minority of people all through human history until the last few centuries.

I don't care of parents co sleep or not, do what is best for your family. But don't try an appeal to the natural.

Sometimes people post and it turns out their child is in the middle of the 4 month sleep regression which they didn't realise was a thing. They might want advice on which nappies keep them dryer for longer, meaning a better sleep. They might wonder if hungry baby milk really does help keep them fuller for longer. Isn't it better that they post so they can be told that hungry baby milk sometimes isn't really a good idea? Or that they can add an extra insert into cloth nappies, or that Pampers babydry are much much better at keeping baby feeling dry at night? Or that a dream feed at 11pm can work wonders as can co sleeping? There are things you can try, I don't know who you think you are just to dismiss everyone's support and advice outright, you're not Sarah Ockwell-Smith, other posters support and advice is just as relevant as yours.

Your post stinks, to be honest.

I luckily had a very good sleeper. However, I'm aware that for most parents, it isn't the case. My DD still went through the odd period of not sleeping (co-inciding with growth spurts, teething, post-vaccinations, etc), but I was still worried incase it was something more.

Being a mum can be stressful. Sometimes you just need reassurance that you're doing things ok. You can't villify parents for posting on a parenting board asking for advice/tips on parenting issues.

All posts like yours do is put, quite often, anxious, worried mothers off asking for guidance. It's easier to ask a group of mums for tips and then go to your doctor/HV, rather than being worried that you're wasting a professional's time with a 'silly' worry.

I also think it's shitty to act like some mums don't know that babies wake throughout the night. Everyone knows this. You can get off your high horse with your faux naiveity. The reason so many mums are so anxious is because of people with attitudes like yours- nothing short of 'I know everything'.

Pathetic.

My DD is 11 and has had night time separation anxiety since she turned 8. She has slept all night in her own bed 3 times since Christmas. Last night I was sat with her at midnight as she had a panic attack. She is currently in therapy for her anxiety. My husband is currently sleeping in the spare room. We have no idea when or if she will get past this, it is hell. Not all children grow out of their sleep issues and not all issues can be classified as a normal part of growing up. I don't know a single child who has the same issues as my DD. If I felt the need to post about it for support I'd hope that would be okay for me to do without being judged - the same should go for anyone who is having a tough time.

I also think it's shitty to act like some mums don't know that babies wake throughout the night. Everyone knows this.

But you do see people posting things like "my 6mo is still not sleeping through the night, all my friends' babies slept through from 8 weeks, what am I doing wrong???" Which would need a different type of answer to "help my 6mo wakes every 20 minutes and I am on my knees with exhaustion."

I don’t think they are expecting anything OP, I think they are posting for advice and support. They are tired and wanting interaction like everyone else, Including you, when they post here

This, exactly. I knew the newborn stage would be hard but nothing prepared me for how hard it was, and you're never sure if you're doing the right thing. They are just desperate and looking for support.

@goldenomber The first thing I would ask is what sleeping through the night means to them. People use this in different ways. It might mean they wish they could sleep from 12 pm to 5 am, not 10 pm to 8 am.

And I too hate the - sleep is a natural development stage, as if every young child naturally learns to sleep through.
It is like anything. There is a timescale where waking a few times every night is normal. But I don't think my friend who has a 7 year old still waking 3-4 times a night is dealing with a natural developmental stage.

I think this is like all things kids do. There are kids who will speak absolutely fine with parents doing nothing more than talking and signing to them. There are other kids that struggle with this and do need tips or specialist help to help them learn to talk okay. If those whose kids learn easily to talk went round lecturing the parents whose kids struggle to learn this by saying it is a natural developmental stage and parents are being unrealistic, then they would rightly be told to stfu.
But this is what happens with sleep. Those whose babies wake up once or twice a night from 3 months old for short periods, lecture other parents about how waking is a normal developmental stage and they will learn to sleep through when they are ready. Those parents don't realise that the parents desperately asking for tips would love their babies to sleep that much.

'Sleepless nights' and 'lack of sleep' are just ethereal concepts until you are living the reality of the endless grinding nights of interrupted sleep and pretty much zero quality sleep.

I suppose those poor parents asking for help (while inside screaming with frustration and feelings of ineptitude) are just wondering where exactly on the scale of 'normal' they are.

“Those whose babies wake up once or twice a night from 3 months old for short periods, lecture other parents about how waking is a normal developmental stage and they will learn to sleep through when they are ready. Those parents don't realise that the parents desperately asking for tips would love their babies to sleep that much.”

I completely agree and I was one of those with a very wakeful baby who would have loved just a few wakeups a night. but on the other hand he wasn’t 7yo - he was at the extremely difficult end of normal for a baby. So it was about needing to reach a developmental stage for him - which he did, within normal limits. No amount of tips or tricks or tweaks worked for him in terms of getting more sleep, I just had to find ways of making the whole situation more bearable for me, he genuinely did just need time. The thing that was hardest was people not believing me that he didn’t respond to whatever their child responded to, they went straight to the assumption that I was doing it wrong, that I wasn’t trying hard enough, that secretly I must want him to be this wakeful. So I stopped talking about it very quickly.

I found the newborn stage a bit easier in some ways, because at least everyone expected me to be knackered then. Once the baby was 6 months and still waking loads people started doing faces, and by 12 months I was getting helpful lectures about how sleep is “SO important for development you know” like I was keeping the baby awake on purpose to go clubbing together or something.

Hearing that it’s within the range of normal didn’t get me any more sleep. But then the people telling me it wasn’t normal weren’t getting me any more sleep either and at least the “it’s normal” camp made me feel less like a failure about it.

The only tips that helped a bit were co-sleeping (which I didn’t love either but it meant more sleep so I embraced it like a long-lost friend) and tips that were more about helping me cope with the lack of sleep than trying to change the baby.

GoldenOmber Your experience sounds very similar to mine. And then once he started sleeping in longer chunks I got pregnant again and I have insomnia from conception during pregnancy... what a fool

I was all braced for more years of hell with the next baby, and then that one slept fine. I nearly fell over with shock the first time I tried shush-pat and the baby actually went to sleep!

No! Don’t give me hope! It’s the hope that kills you!

Nobody is surprised that babies wake up.

However some parents get the impression from
a) friends who got lucky and
b) books like the one by G F
that babies will sleep through or at least sleep better from a fairly early age IF you do everything right.

So it’s not surprising that many mums ask for advice on how to “do it right” and get the magical sleeping baby.

Plus, although I believe that 90% of how a baby sleeps is innate, there are a few things you can do that MAY make it better. (Getting enough naps, watching for sleep cues, white noise, trying to let them self settle rather than always feeding/rocking to sleep, etc). So again, it’s not daft to ask for advice.

It’s the hope that kills you!

Haha this is SO true.

Limensoda I’m afraid you’re the one coming across as the one with the issue - I’m not the one putting yet more pressure on other parents for how their children sleep or how they react to it

Neither am I. Parents put pressure on themselves when they get stressed.
All babies are different. They can't sleep to our demand, especially under the age of one year old. If you are lucky, training may work...but if it doesn't, there's nothing wrong so parents needn't blame themselves for that.

@IvinghoeBeacon I know for some parents nothing works. But for some changing things does mean things get a bit better.
I think too many still think their experience of their baby is transferable to every baby, when it is really not. I assume all the baby book tips work for some babies somewhere.

“I think too many still think their experience of their baby is transferable to every baby, when it is really not.”

This is exactly what I have been saying all along...