...to not understand why so many parents post constantly wondering why their child wakes through the night?

[sleepingtroub]

Post after post.
"My child is 5mo and wakes during the night to feed"
"How can I implement a routine on my 5week old?"
"How can I get my 6mo to sleep in their own room without waking up"

When did it get to this?

These are all normal things.

Before I was even old enough to have a child I was fully aware of the concept: baby = no sleep
Obviously it's not as bad as that 24/7 but why are so many parents expecting their old sleep routines to continue when they have a baby?

This is a parenting support website - they are parents and they're looking for support

A lot of the time people do get helpful advice though. My friends that have had the worst sleepers have all had babies with some sort of reflux but lots of first time parents don’t know what to look for. Also lots of people do get tips or support for sleep training or better routines. There is nothing wrong with wanting some sleep. It is a basic human need.

I agree with you OP. A lot of people seem to have very unrealistic expectations - they see babies as problems that need fixing.

I have a 5 month old, it is hard and I have days where it is overwhelming but I know it is normal.

And don’t get me started on sleep training. Just wrong.

Yes, babies waking in the night is normal. I have three, my youngest is 13 months and still up multiple times a night. Eldest slept through at 3.5 years. Second at 15 months. I know night waking is normal, more than most.
That doesn’t stop me looking for advice on how to get my 13 month old sleeping a bit better, as I am on my knees with exhaustion. Doesn’t stop me asking how to get him sleeping past 5am in the morning as it’s really fucking hard being up with him 2/3 times a night then starting the day at 5am.
Knowing something is ‘normal’ doesn’t mean you can’t take steps to improve the situation, or that you can’t have a moan about how hard it is.

@Megan2018 well said, I couldn't agree more.

I'm wondering if health visitors/ midwives etc aren't gearing new parents up with this info

People cant win! I saw a thread recently where people were telling a pregnant woman about how tiring it is and how much babies wake up and its exhausting and loads of people on MN said the person was negative and horrible and shouldn't be saying such things to a pregnant woman! You cant have it both ways - if you tell people about sleep deprivation you are "scaremongering", if you pretend its all fine and the baby will sleep through at age 5 days you are clearly lying and setting them up for failure.

People whose babies sleep well go on about it all the time, whereas those who are struggling with sleep dont talk about it so it gives the idea that sleeping through it more common.

People say babies "sleep through" when they actually have to get them up for a dream feed at 11 and they wake up at 4 but then go back to sleep until 8. Thats not sleeping through.

Rose tinted glasses from parents and older relatives "I put my baby in a dark room at 7pm from the night we came home from the hospital and he slept through every night from then on". Sure he did Mum.

Books which claim to solve sleep issues in order to sell copies and then you feel like a failure if those techniques dont work.

And don’t get me started on sleep training

But you know ‘sleep training’ doesn’t only mean leaving a baby to cry don’t you? ‘Sleep training’ can something like involve tweaking a daytime routine to ensure optimum nighttime sleep. Or ‘shush pat’ rather than feeding at every single wake up. It isn’t just controlled crying or cry it out.
I’d say I’m currently doing some ‘sleep training’ with DS, but not once have I left him to cry. Never have and never would.
Also, some people genuinely do struggle with the lack of sleep more than others. I suffer from severe insomnia, so in some ways it’s easier as I’m used to not sleeping. But imagine going to bed at 11, exhausted beyond belief. Lying awake until 3am due to insomnia. Finally drift off, and at 3.30am your baby wakes up for a feed. Resettle them 45 mins later, then they get up for the day at 5. It’s tough.
Everyone’s circumstances are different.

Fantasising about being hit by a car and ending up in hospital so you can get some sleep

I’ve done this too. And also was glad when I ended up in intensive care with sepsis as it meant I got some sleep.

Because when you are incredibly sleep deprived you need some tips to get a bit more sleep. That does not necessarily mean never getting up in the night. It can mean sleeping long enough to be able to function the next day.
And IME mums like you OP who go on about how natural it is to be woken up during the night, usually are getting enough sleep to be able to function. The smugness always comes through though.
For those who are not getting enough sleep to function and are so sleep deprived that they are getting scared they are not able to safely look after their baby, they do need tips on how to get more sleep.

I had a great baby. I was 21 so a very young mum. He woke up once or twice a night I until he was 6 weeks old then I went onto bottle feeding and he slept right through.
He would only wake up more if he was ill with a cold or whatever.
It's just luck I don't think it's anything to do with parenting. Me and my youngest sister were exactly the same. Very good sleepers. Our middle sister was horrific. I remember her screaming all night and my mum going nuts.

I knew that babies woke at night but I didn't know they would be up for the majority of the night and sleep most of the day (DD) or wake up at 5 or 6 separate intervals during the night (DS). I'd also read baby books such as Gina Ford which gives the impression that you must be doing it wrong if you don't have a baby who settles to a predictable routine practically at once. On top of that my own mother had clearly had babies who behaved and as good as told me I must be doing it wrong! After months where you've not had more than 3 hours of sleep at a time or more than 5 or 6 a night, it's pretty hard to think straight.

@RhymingRabbit3 I think that is the ideal that many parents of young babies are trying to achieve. Sounds bliss.

I think those of us who grew up with much younger siblings may have been less surprised by night-wakings and the rest of standard baby behaviour. I know my DD was a relatively easy baby because I grew up in a house with louder, more restless and more demanding babies. She didn't sleep through the night as a little baby but she was lovely, cuddly company when she woke up.

Some of my friends who were only children or youngest children seemed completely dazed or desperate to find the "right manual" to make their babies more like their friends' kids (I suspect lots of people aren't completely honest about babies sleeping through the night from an early age....). You can only offer support, sympathy and remind them if something is normal behaviour, or their mum-friends' claims sound a bit implausible.

There is no normal. I wake up through the night once or twice. I think most people do. The difference is we know how to get back to sleep.
Alot of babies haven't learned to self soothe.

I think there's alot of differing opinions when you have babies. People telling you what to do, what they did with their babies, expecting you to to the same because that's the way they did it. People belittling breastfeeding because formula keeps babies asleep for longer (complete bollocks).

Sometimes it's hunger, teething pain etc.
But really majority of the time it's their inability to self soothe. That's not a bad thing, it's a development thing. But if you are a FTM then it's a minefield and the support of other mums helps no end.
Sometimes it's just nice to dial to other mums and take comfort in the knowledge that we aren't alone in our sleep deprived, unwashed state.

@ribenamonsoon Everyone has sleep cycles as an adult that means there are times of the night where you are only half asleep. But learning to sleep as an adult means that you connect those sleep cycles so you never properly wake up. Often people with insomnia are failing to do that.

I think people do know rationally that it's normal, but also in the thick of it where they would do anything for an uninterrupted night of sleep it reaches the point of asking if there's any reason for it and if there's anything that can be done to help their sleep. I hate the idea that there is normal and abnormal for babies sleep, DS slept through from about 5 months and I never spoke about it because it's insensitive, but in baby groups the amount of people who made me doubt myself (without realising) saying it's abnormal and they should be waking led me to wondering what was wrong. The answer was nothing, they're just all different.

I think YAB a bit U OP, most of the sleep training threads on here mention babies that have sub-optimal levels of sleep considering they are in a period of rapid growth, like older babies waking each hour or awake for long periods during the night and generally just sleeping less than what is needed. This is obviously expected during teething or illness but if happening regularly it can’t be good for them and using gentle sleep training methods if baby is otherwise well to try and help improve their sleep can only be a good thing, although of course sleep training doesn’t always work which must be very difficult.

Yes that’s the other thing. I need to improve my DS’s sleep for his sake. He is currently sleeping around 10 hours in 24, which isn’t enough at 13 months old. He is constantly exhausted (as am I). His current sleep pattern is doing neither of us any favours.

I didn’t speak about my son’s wakefulness in RL (or much on here at the time) because of the number of people with babies who slept for longer chunks naturally, or who had found that XYZ intervention worked for their child, who simply didn’t believe that mine could be different and react differently. They were so keen to imply that they had got it right and I had got it wrong.

I used sleep training because I was so exhausted that I was not safe to drive and then not safe to even hold my baby. I remember falling asleep on the sofa feeding him and dropping him. It was literally for a few seconds, but scared the shit out of me. It was not night time, I was just exhausted. He was fine, but I knew something had to change.

I have a few friends who are into attachment parenting and they go on about how babies waking up is normal. But they all seemed rested enough when they had their own baby to be safe. What they meant was the baby waked up a few times during the night, then went back to sleep. They still got a good enough sleep themselves.

I think it's because as a culture we have developed this idea that a baby is supposed to fit around our lives rather than the other way round. Babies come into world acting on pure instinct, as close to original humanity as it's possible to be... they haven't yet been ordained into this strange and unnatural society we've created for ourselves, with working weeks and deadlines and rigid schedules. This clash of needs is so jarring and difficult that a lot of women assume it must only be them, that motherhood can't possibly be this exhausting, so they ask to see if it is indeed something they're doing wrong. Best thing to do is tell them the truth - this is normal, and you're doing great. Usually the only real remedy for sleep issues - if you don't want to risk harming your child - is time. I've certainly learned that with both my DC!
In our natural state as communal societies, women would have had more help with kids from family members and peers. It isn't supposed to be this hard, and the posts you see are a reflection of people knowing this but not realising that what is unnatural is the way we live, not our children's behaviour.

I personally think the mummy martyring ‘I got no sleep and could barely function until my baby was 4 and that’s FINE he’s a BABY’ are more damaging than those who ask for a bit of advice with how to settle their babies etc. it puts a level of shame on those who might need to work, be single parents. care for elderly parents, drive long distances, have multiple other kids To look after etc and who need to have sleep to literally go on living their lives.
We can’t all hole up for three years in our cozy Nappy valley homes with our husbands on a six figure salary, ‘baby wearing’ our constantly screeching toddlers, breastfeeding on demand til they start school and saying it’s just a natural stage of development. Some of us have to actually live our lives past that 6mo maternity luxury

Eurgh OP your post is ridiculously condescending.

Well done for being clued up on exactly what babies are like.

Every single parent I know has said that no one can prepare you for how difficult it is. Every single one. I did antenatal classes which covered a lot of stuff. But no one can prepare you for the reality of your baby with a bit of theory.

My baby is now 5mo and slept well as a newborn, only waking 2 or 3 times a night. She has not slept well for the last two months and it is getting worse rather than better. The last few nights she has been up every single hour.

I didn’t expect to be sleeping well with a baby. But she is EBF and refuses a bottle and dummy, has CMPA (so I can’t even eat a fucking pizza or a bag of Maltesers to cheer myself up a bit), she won’t settle for my husband at all anymore and we have NO help from family as both grandparents are seriously ill (recently taken ill too, so we have to somehow manage visiting them and managing their care on top of all this).

Yesterday I broke down to the GP and said I wasn’t coping. I am at breaking point.

Even if someone had told me with their magic crystal ball that my baby would be like this it would not have made it easier to cope.

I worry about whether my baby is getting enough sleep. I worry about my baby’s safety in the care of such a sleep deprived mother. So I’ve posted on here before for any guidance on what I could do to improve things and there is no shame in that.