...to not understand why so many parents post constantly wondering why their child wakes through the night?

[sleepingtroub]

Post after post.
"My child is 5mo and wakes during the night to feed"
"How can I implement a routine on my 5week old?"
"How can I get my 6mo to sleep in their own room without waking up"

When did it get to this?

These are all normal things.

Before I was even old enough to have a child I was fully aware of the concept: baby = no sleep
Obviously it's not as bad as that 24/7 but why are so many parents expecting their old sleep routines to continue when they have a baby?

YANBU

I sa wan online advert the other day about some kind of sleeping device that will make sure your baby sleeps through the night and it is advertised as being “ suitable from birth”.

I couldn’t believe it.

Waking up for feeds is completely normal and not something to try and prevent - especially in young babies and especially, especially in newborns.

Madness.

Lots of sympathy, Opportunityknocks - it's horrible. There's definitely no one size fits all but we did gentle sleep training (essentially gradual retreat with some rapid return at the end - the longest DS was ever left alone for was 90 seconds) with a sleep consultant and we both think it was the best money we've ever spent.

Incidentally when I was pregnant and for the first few months after DS was born I thought sleep training was barbaric and couldn't understand how anyone could let their baby cry. I was a naive idiot who didn't understand a) that not all sleep training is CIO b) that's there's a huge difference between a tiny baby who needs you in the night and an older baby who is cross you won't play with them in the night and c) how desperate for sleep I could be...

Mothers just cannot win whatever they say or do.

When my second baby didn't sleep, I quickly realised that it wasn't anything I was doing wrong, first baby had been fine but none of the tricks and techniques worked on second baby it was just the way he was and I went into survival mode.

We resorted to co-sleeping, it worked for us because it meant that everyone slept, I'm sure it wouldn't work for everyone. I actually hate the word co-sleeping, the truth is our baby slept better when he was next to us and that's that. I had to learn to enjoy it because it's what he needed.

But the amount of times I've been absolutely slated for it. A nurse made me cry once shouting at me, I've had relatives treat me like an idiot and tell me I need fucking super nanny. Well my husband and I must both be complete fools.

What I do wish is that people would just let others do it their way.

Babies don't know our schedules or lifestyle....They wake in the night. It's normal so I don't understand why parents insist on 'training' a baby under 9 months old, to sleep.
Some do sleep, many don't. It's the luck of the draw which kind of baby you get. Getting stressed about it just creates more problems. Unfortunately, today, women have to try to fit their baby into their routine of working a job.
It's stressful. Babies can't develop naturally in today's world.

I hate when people go “you just need a good bedtime routine with a bath!” Because they were lucky enough to have a DC who was a good sleeper and they somehow think This was all down to a bath before bed. Trust me I’ve tried the lavender scented baths and low lighting and no screens and a story and calming music etc. I still thought I must be missing something! It’s something I’m doing wrong.

I realised after a year that DD is a hyper kid who is fantastic in other ways and just doesn’t need a lot of sleep. She was never going to be a sleepy baby, I wish I’d just stop trying so hard at the start (I did try a bit of CC but it wasn’t working)

I notice how whenever people would ask around 10 months “is she walking yet?” Or at 5 months “is she crawling yet?” And I said no, they would reply with “she’ll do it in her own time don’t force it”. However when it comes to sleep, HVs, family and friends all seem to think that you SHOULD force this.
All babies walk at different times and roll over at different times so why can’t we accept that they will sleep through too at different times

Waking up for feeds is completely normal and not something to try and prevent - especially in young babies and especially, especially in newborns

Yes it is. Like I said above, I’d have been beyond ecstatic if mine woke for a few feeds overnight and went back to sleep. In fact that was what DD2 did. She didn’t sleep through the night until 15 months but I was surviving fine as she woke, fed and slept.
DS woke last night at 11.20 (I was in bed but hadn’t gone to sleep yet). He went back to sleep at 2.45am. I got to sleep around 4. He got up for the day at 5. I had an hours sleep. He’s 13 months old. Yes I want him to sleep longer, for mine and his sake (and for my older DC who currently have an exhausted, good for nothing mum).

Thanks limensoda but I think DS - who is a happy, bright toddler and who was instantly a much happier baby once he got some sleep - has been allowed to develop just fine, thanks

That's the other thing that some women - usually those with happy cosleepers - don't get. Some babies are not perfectly happy waking up all night and it's only their selfish mothers who don't like it. DS wasn't happy waking in the night. He would scream and scream, sometimes for hours. Every technique to settle him - feeds (no longer really an option to feed him every time he woke once I stopped breastfeeding anyway), rocking him, walking around with him - took longer and longer and then stopped working altogether. If we took him into our bed he'd crawl around and around and then start crying because we would try and hold him still. The sleep training wasn't a sudden introduction of him crying, he had been crying a lot before because he was tired but fought against falling asleep.

My son was a happy cosleeper, I was not. i gave him what he needed, call me martyrish or whatever, but it was the only option at the time until he developed, but it did not get me any more sleep, it just meant that I was horizontal and my son wasn’t screaming

“Getting stressed about it just creates more problems.“

Just more blame tbh

Mine hates co-sleeping. Headbutts me, lashes out, tries to climb out of the bed, screams... doesn’t want to feed to sleep, he’s not hungry. What do you do then?

It's obviously wrong when people are trying to impose sleeping through techniques on parents who have no problem with the wake ups. That's a different kettle of fish entirely from parents who find the downsides of frequent waking difficult, not necessarily just for themselves either, and are asking for assistance of their own volition.

But kids are different- DS doesn't need a lot of sleep, not even now he's started school, but he's happy and healthy. Trying to force him to sleep more would be wrong and I've heard lots of crap about letting him go to bed around 9.

A child who is waking through the night and miserable about it and shattered the next day, does need some help getting to sleep and staying asleep. Of course it might not work, but it's definitely worth trying.

It is worth pointing out though that British people on average put their kids to bed really early and it's seen as the mark of a good parent that doesn't take any crap which certainly won't help if this doesn't apply to your child.

Dc1 turns 5 on Monday. He needs very little sleep and often wakes up in the night. Dc2 is 20 months and wakes up 4 or 5 times a night. I am exhausted and have multiple prescriptions for various sleeping pills none of which do much. Dc2 wants to co-sleep. When she was really small she wanted to be on my chest at all times. Trying to put her down in her cot was a nightmare. Co-sleeping was not an option. She's still very cuddly and wants our bed rather than her own.

The only people who bring up their children's sleep to me seem to be the "oh they've slept through the night since they were 3 months old" lot.

No one seems to accept advice or help from their own families. And often live hundreds of miles from them, isolated but that’s the way they like it.

Dh loves his job. My mum won't move closer. What are we meant to do? I did ask both MiL and my mum for advice. MiL said put them in their own room from birth. My mum said "it's karma, you never slept until you were a teenager and discovered alcohol".

Is it really normal for a 3 year old to wake during the night surely not for food. I can imagine if they need the toilet..

My ds didn’t sleep for longer than an hour during the night until he was 15 months. I really thought I was going to have a nervous break down. He wasn’t hungry and he wasn’t in pain. He couldn’t get himself back to sleep once he woke. He also didn’t sleep during the day. I expected he would wake regularly to feed and accepted this could be every 2/3 hours but waking every hour on the hour for 15 months? Nope that’s not normal..

I don’t know Elbeagle, I only know what my son needed, I’ve never claimed to have the answer for anyone else. But when people post about their babies who behave like mine did, all I can say is “I coslept”. I very aware it won’t work for everyone, just as the “have you tried shushing and patting” response was no use to me

I started a thread about my 6mo not sleeping. I was really struggling. Fwiw we started sleep training and it's much better.

There's a difference between 'normal' and 'within normal limits'. It might be within the realms of normal for a 6mo to be waking several times at night, but that doesn't mean it should be expected.

My HV said at 5mo that sleep is a problem when it's a problem for me, which is a good way of looking at it imo.

I think you are being quite rigid. Most of MN is people posting to aid their understanding and feelings surrounding a problem/issue rather than to find practical, objective solutions.

Sigh. All the smug cliches are being trotted out, I see!

‘Sleep training will harm your child’s development!’ No, my DD is happy, bright and well adjusted.

‘Co-sleeping is natural! Everyone in non-western cultures does it because they are so much more in tune with nature!’ Aside from promoting the offensive Noble Savage stereotype, this is not helpful for those of us who live in the 21st century uk and have to work/dislike co sleeping. Cosleeping is not a magic solution.

‘Don’t stress about it, you’ll make it worse!’ Well, thank you for that pearl of wisdom - clearly rather than contemplating self harm and being referred to the mental health team I should have just not stressed.

‘British people put their kids to bed too early - just let them run around until 10pm and then they’ll sleep!’ No, if I did that with my DD she would be exhausted and ratty.

Co-sleeping isn't a magic solution but FOR SOME PEOPLE it can really help. It got me from 'dangerously sleep-deprived' to 'just really really bloody tired' which was far from a fix but definitely helped.

There is so much awful sleep advice out there though. Any useful tool can become irritating if people are suggesting it as the one magic fix and why don't you just [cosleep/have a good bedtime routine/whatever].

What used to drive me absolutely barmy was the people who tell you to have a more no-nonsense attitude like that'll magically sort it. "Oooh I couldn't have been doing with that amount of sleep, I had to go back to work." So did I! The baby didn't care!

“What used to drive me absolutely barmy was the people who tell you to have a more no-nonsense attitude like that'll magically sort it. "Oooh I couldn't have been doing with that amount of sleep, I had to go back to work." So did I! The baby didn't care!”

Yep. And “I value my sleep so I prioritised making sure my child slept well from day one”. Um, I value my sleep too, I didn’t go into parenthood thinking “oh goodie, this will be great, my sleep doesn’t matter to me at all”. I tell you what, I value it even more now.

Because all day every day all you get is”do they sleep through the night” or “are they a good sleeper” from every Tom dick and Harry so people start to think babies should

People co-sleep in some other cultures because they don't have things like bedrooms and separate beds. When you all live in 1 room with little or no heating, of course you all sleep together. And people used to do the same in Britain as well for the same reason.
Co-sleep if it works for you. But don't pretend it happens elsewhere to help babies sleep. It happens elsewhere because there is no alternative if you want to keep the baby warm and safe.

Honestly I get really fed up of attachment parents.

I don't really talk about how badly my youngest sleeps because it seems to be like an open invitation for advice that doesn't work for me or my child (e.g. sleep training, stopping breastfeeding, baby rice in bottles etc etc) or criticism.

The advice is not so bad, though people have been offended when I say things are not for me, like I think they're terrible parents because it worked for them. The criticism just makes me cross.

From what I can gather, many many parents are in the same boat. It's normal, some babies don't sleep well. But most don't talk about it. Which I suppose encourages the idea that everyone else's babies are sleeping brilliantly. That along with all the portrayals of peaceful babies in films and tv, and the many books that suggest if you do x y z then you've cracked it (only it seems my kids never read those books so they weren't on board).

I was the first of my friends to have kids and no I didn't tell them how hellish it could be sometimes. I wouldn't want to cause them that worry at what was a very exciting time for them. There is no guarantee they would have the same experiences as me. And I didn't want to come across as a smug know it all either.

I don't think anyone really expects a miracle solution, I think it's more the comfort that it's not just them that is going through it.

Let's be honest, being on maternity leave can be incredibly boring and lonely sometimes. And no matter how much someone tells you about the no sleep, it's still a completely different ball game when you experience it yourself. Before having a baby you imagine it being like that one night back in 2002 you slept for 3 hours and then some how coasted through work the next day.... When actually it's so much different, especially as you now have this tiny little life depending on you.

Nobody is posting and expecting a solution, they just want to get their frustration off their chest so they can carry on with day. Some will feel more reassured by the shared experience.

Sorry IvinghoeBeacon my post came just after yours so it looked like I was replying directly to you. I was speaking more generally about the ‘co-sleeping is the answer to everything’ brigade that you often see on here.