To ask was it all worth it for DD 1 to attend a super selective grammar school when she is so down on herself because she won't be going to Oxbridge like her three best friends.e

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DD 1 YR 13 is hoping to get offers from Warwick , Bath or Surrey Universities. However, despite potentially having the choice of three great Uni's is feeling extremely low this evening, unbelievable i know but with three of her closet friends likely to get offers from Cambridge and Oxford is feeling 'stupid!

Do these extra selective girls schools create the idea for normally very bright girls that if you are not Oxford/Cambridge bound you are mediocre .
Out of sympathy DD 2 year 10 who is at the same Essex Grammar school as now informed me she intends leaving the school next year and will not go to University.

I worked at oxford uni a few tines

I thought they were all pompous! One was bragging to me about his shark swimming business in the Caribbean that daddy had funded....

Was dull as dishwater

I think it is tough for DC who are labelled as super intelligent at 11 or 13 if they are subsequently not successful in achieving their academic goals. I always wonder what it is like for scholars from Westminster, Winchester, Eton etc who have been singled out as geniuses, then apply to Oxbridge and are not offered a place.

Its a bit like being picked up by a premier league football programme/ ballet school/ or specialist music school and then being dropped. Hopefully these schools also teach resilience.

But your DD will be fine wherever they go.

I’m familiar with the type of school, although not this particular one. They are absolute pressure cookers. Many girls thrive but some do not. In my day the pressure manifested in eating disorders and self-harm. If your younger DD is serious about going elsewhere for sixth form then please let her look seriously into this option.

Yes my DD has told me 2 of the three girls have been offered Cambridge with one of the girls being possibly accepted in the 'summer pool' of undergraduates after exam results.
I thought the summer pool was for those who hadn't quite made the grade for the original college they applied to and could then be accepted by other colleges with places. I don't think people who are rejected now are placed in the summer pool but I could be wrong.

If your DD was told from the age of 12 that Oxbridge was an achievable goal I don't understand why she then didn't apply when the others did. If you apply you can be rejected or be given an offer but if you don't apply you won't get in at all.

If she's bothered about it she could wait until after the A-level results and perhaps take a gap year and apply next year if she gets high enough grade. Or she could accept an offer from one of the other excellent universities and take up her place there instead.
But I'd question whether Oxbridge was the right place for her if she already felt she wasn't good enough to apply. She needs to work on her confidence in any case.

It’s just a phase that students from academic schools go through because Oxbridge seems the most desirable destination after school. Which the schools foster to some extent as they do measure their success by how many students they send.

Over the coming years she will realise that Oxbridge courses are quite conservative, that most students there are no cleverer than her or anyone else she knows, that there is no particular correlation between an Oxbridge degree and general success in life.

I genuinely believe that oxbridge the only thing it gives you is the name.

But you didn't get in/go to Oxford or Cambridge so how would you know?

I hear a lot of folk saying Oxbridge is x, y or a who have zero first-hand experience and are basing it on hearsay. The reality is that the 1:1 teaching and highest academic rigour are what set Oxbridge apart from other universities. Most people who go love it, a few don't but that's true of anywhere. And it's true that Oxbridge graduates are at an advantage in the labour market and in academia.

No, they are not the be-all and end-all, and they're not right for a lot of people, but there's no need to suggest that their reputation is unfounded just because you/your DC didn't go there.

Warwick is an exceptional school. Very deliberately Not Oxbridge in both style and structure, but full of whip-smart students and some of the best faculty and academics in the UK (and indeed the world). I think she'll thrive.

YANBU OP, does she go to Chelmsford County High school by any chance?

OP, you could tell her that the London independent schools in the top ten of the league tables don’t really make a huge deal of Oxbridge any more. They talk about the “global top ten” (whatever that is). These schools get about 20 or more into Oxbridge every year, but they’re just as likely to mention someone who got into a highly competitive course at Imperial or UCL or LSE. Or indeed, the 30 or so who get into US Ivy League. Or someone who gets into RADA or St Martins School of Art. Many unis ask for AAA now and gone are the days when Oxbridge was a different league. It depends entirely on the course.

Summer pool only applies to those who had places but missed results. Not those who didn't get in first time.

People tell all sorts of fibs about university acceptance.

I am confused she has a place at Warwick (the 11th best University) which is a lovely area an amazing campus and you all think it isnt good enough.

I was in a similar position to OPs DD at school.
30 years later there is nothing to choose in outcomes between the Oxbridge grads of my acquaintance and anyone else. The most successful people I know in money terms dropped out of uni.
When the friends get to Oxbridge they will find themselves surrounded by other super bright kids, and no doubt they will feel second best at some point.
Certain occupations are full of Oxbridge grads but the rest of the world doesn't care.
It's hard for OPs DD but everyone has to experience failure at some point - resilience is a v important quality in life.

DD did not apply to either Oxford or Cambridge due to her not feeling she was good enough ! This is despite the school telling her to apply. However, i think the reason she did not is the fear of rejection from said Universities.

Therefore rather than face the chance of being rejected she choose not to apply citing she was not good enough like the other 75% of her year.

Then this is your issue to deal with as a family and nothing to do with the school.

yes this is nothing to do with the school and everything to do with her

About 10- 15 girls or about 10% from the school accept offers from Oxbridge annually so that leaves the other 90 % feeling they have let the school down. These are i suspect are personal feelings and not through vibes intentionally given out by the school. However, the school does lionize Oxbridge offers above all el

What does your DD do outside of school, OP? How are you building her confidence and resilience?

This is why some schools round here are doing sessions on teaching their highflying pupils to learn to cope with disappointment and failure. It’s an essential skill in everyday life and those who have excelled at school often don’t get much experience.

Deal with it as a family. Your younger DD is being ridiculous and hysterical if she says she won’t go to university at all (assuming she did want to) based on only Oxbridge being worthwhile. Give their heads a wobble and show them that they will flourish where they are best suited.

Many, many fine individuals got on in life just fine without the benefit of Oxbridge. They will, however, have learned to deal with the reality of life and been better for it.

( DN graduated from Cambridge with a first and then really struggled with life as she had gained virtually no life skills when cloistered up there.)

@Cheeijlo I was going to put my money on it being Colchester County High for Girls!

DD did not apply to either Oxford or Cambridge due to her not feeling she was good enough ! This is despite the school telling her to apply. However, i think the reason she did not is the fear of rejection from said Universities.
Therefore rather than face the chance of being rejected she choose not to apply citing she was not good enough like the other 75% of her year.

This has nothing to do with the school. The school told her to apply. She was afraid of being rejected so didn't apply. This is her issue, not the school's.
If the school was making out she wasn't good enough to apply and therefore she didn't apply then you might have a point.

That said, I know what some of these schools can be like, pushing Oxbridge all the time. I was turned down by Oxford many years ago and went to York. In fact, I really wanted to get turned down by Oxford as I'd already had an interview at York and absolutely loved the department. It was the right place for me and Oxford wasn't.
However, the school were not happy and phoned up Oxford and they said I had done very well and came close and should apply the next year as I was "young" (I was a year ahead). I said I didn't want to so the school started pushing Cambridge at me - which would have meant a change of course. They wanted me to take a gap year - all so they could brag about Oxbridge places.
So in this respect I can see that some schools push too much and by doing so devalue other places in the minds' of the pupils.

As I said above, if she regrets not applying and her grades are excellent, she could consider taking a gap year and applying again but with an offer at Warwick she has an excellent course and university waiting for her.

Hang on, there are 2 CCHSs, Chelmsford and Colchester - possibly we are not all talking about the same school, though it's a moot point as it sounds like Colchester is quite similar to Chelmsford.

My school (a very selective church of england school that somehow retained 'comprehensive' status) treated those in sixth form who weren't interested in Oxbridge or Medicine as second class citizens. The Oxbridge/Medicine applicants had lots of sessions to support their applications, extra help with interview practice, personal statements etc. I like to think I had the nouse to apply for Oxbridge but I opted not to, didn't want to be surrounded by toffs and feel inferior and spend 3 years with my nose to paper writing essays and stuff.

I actually ended up going to Warwick (great uni, campus bubble is great for 1st year, lots of fun living in Leamington years 2 and 3, got a a degree from a very respectable uni whilst having lots of fun and drinking at the same time!). At times in the run up to starting at Warwick and the first few months I wondered should I have applied to Oxbridge, but with the great time I had once term kicked off I soon forgot about it.

Around graduation I saw those who had been to Oxbridge post their photos up and there was some jealousy/inferiority in my mind, but other than that I'm now living happily. My grad scheme was in Cambridge I worked alongside several people from Cambridge Uni and met quite a few others in similar or arguably worse jobs - proved the point that for most it doesn't help get you ahead - that's more your families wealth/network and private secondary school network. A lot of people I talked to about Cambridge also agreed it was non-stop essays and tutorials and terribly boring outside of the Summer season where they have the May balls etc.

My point is - your DD may feel bad now but try to focus her on the positives of the other unis. When she starts at one I'm sure these feelings will quickly subside.

You sound quite passive about it all
Op. Stop blaming the school. Your daughters both sound like they are doing great and you need to help them realise that. Be positive and forward looking.

This is a genuine problem. I was a scholarship girl at a highly selective all girls school. I was told I was not good enough for the Oxbridge special study group which was devastating to my self esteem aged 17. I got 4 Grade As and went to Imperial College to do medicine so not a failure in any way . But I was made to feel this way.

The irony is that I’m now a Lecturer in Oxford but know that the high pressure atmosphere would not have suited me. I had much more fun than my students do. I had a lucky escape!