To ask was it all worth it for DD 1 to attend a super selective grammar school when she is so down on herself because she won't be going to Oxbridge like her three best friends.e

[mainstreet]

DD 1 YR 13 is hoping to get offers from Warwick , Bath or Surrey Universities. However, despite potentially having the choice of three great Uni's is feeling extremely low this evening, unbelievable i know but with three of her closet friends likely to get offers from Cambridge and Oxford is feeling 'stupid!

Do these extra selective girls schools create the idea for normally very bright girls that if you are not Oxford/Cambridge bound you are mediocre .
Out of sympathy DD 2 year 10 who is at the same Essex Grammar school as now informed me she intends leaving the school next year and will not go to University.

@GrumpyHoonMain you think a sixth former can just waltz in and manage social media accounts for a council?! Having worked in a Comms team for a major council myself largely staffed with experienced former journalists and marketers aged 30+ I think not.

Oxbridge isn’t the be-all and end-all. I know some who went and thrived, I know some who decided it wasn’t for them and changed after a year. I went to Bath Spa myself, and it was wonderful!

Can you please answer if she even applied? 4 or 5 people have asked and you haven't answered.

Hard life, innit?

The upset being caused in the end because DD did not even think she was even good enough to apply for either Oxford/Cambridge !

I don't think she applied. OP said she was upset she couldn't go and cited thinking she wasn't good enough to even apply as the reason for the upset.

It would be helpful if OP did clarify though.

I think you need to temper it slightly. Its unlikely for anyone to go to the same university as their friends. Its about the subject you choose, the best place to study it, and the right fit of university. What private/selective schools do is present quite a narrow path i.e. A Levels then University or family/business contacts.

In 2018, 533000 people had offers accepted via UCAS.
If the outcome of the education you have encouraged your daughters to take up is one deciding that she is a failure with top grades and another wanting to leave the school in protest you really do have cause to pause and reflect.

I’ve taught in universities and have many friends teaching across the UK in HE institutions. The most important thing is getting the right course. For example, what does she want to be when she leaves Uni? What is a degree in politics going to do for her? Does she want to be an MP? Serious question. It’s more important to have a think about what career she wants. If she wants to be a physiotherapist then she’s better off going to Guildford or Oxford Brookes who do sports science courses. Each university has its strength. Be wary that she’s been so caught up in grammar school exams and achieving that she hasn’t really had a chance to think about who she is and what she wants out of life. Some of the unhappiest people I know are the ones who did grammar school/independent school, oxbridge, drift into city corporate job. Hit 50 and realise they actually really wanted to be a primary school teacher or a sports coach. My friend turned down a place at Cambridge. Didn’t go to any university and became expert in his field and now has his own business. You don’t need an oxbridge degree to own your own business making ladies bras for example but you can become super wealthy being great at whatever your passion is.

"Can you please answer if she even applied? 4 or 5 people have asked and you haven't answered."

OP said dd didnt think she was good enough to apply so i assume she didn't. So she may already have been feeling a bit insecure. The ucas process can be a stressful time - although arguably less so now than 10 years ago before the cap on places was lifted.

So do the friends have offers or not?

As far as I am aware you need an offer to be to be in the summer pool.

Oxbridge is no guarantee of success. My Oxbridge friends have fairly normal bog standard jobs. If your metric of success is money, my Bath friends are doing pretty well - some on 6 figures now in mid/late 20s. If your metric is fulfilment, personal happiness or running your own business - then no university will guarantee that!

@Helenluvsrob

Is that a pic of your DD? Mine would go ballistic if I posted her photo on an Internet forum.

I'd never heard the term Oxbridge before coming on mn. Or red brick. Or RG uni.
I think there's a certain type of poster caught up in all this with their knickers in a permanent twist.
It's the kids I feel sorry for.

Oxbridge isn't the be-all and end-all for everyone and all subjects.

Has DD come out of school happy, well-educated and well-adjusted? If so, success. If not, then there's a problem but it isn't related to uni offers.

I know two people who left Oxbridge courses after a year or less to go to other universities including one on your DD's list, simply because they didn't enjoy their experience there.

I know someone else who declined an Oxbridge place and chose to study medicine somewhere else on the basis of the other uni having a strong specialism in an area of interest to her, and supporting the local sports team!

Going back a while, several of my year at at a selective school didn't bother even applying for Oxbridge despite being part of the third who got straight As. Reasons included not wanting to go somewhere with a "traditional" atmosphere, not wanting to move down south, wanting a more practical focus to their particular courses, or just being sick of parents and teachers banging on about it all the time.

Good luck to your DD, whatever she does next!

*If the school is creating that thought then I would question if it's a healthy atmosphere?

Surely they cannot expect everyone to go there? At most a school gets say 5-10 oxbridge candidates?*

Right. CCHS is not a healthy atmosphere. It has many good points but that's not one of them.

Re numbers, in my day it was usually between 5 and 15 from a school year of 90.
But from the beginning you're aware that's what you're meant to be aiming for, right from when you walk in past the polished wooden honours boards with the names of Oxbridge entrants from the earliest days of the school picked out in gold leaf (Winifred Picking, anyone?)

One year the speaker on Speech Day gave a speech which was all about doing what YOU wanted to do, not being pushed around by people who thought you should aim for something else. The head (I know this because my mum taught there) was furious.

I didn’t get into Cambridge. I was devastated at the time, but within a week of starting the Uni I ended up in I couldn’t have cared less. It will pass.

I know many Oxford grads, including my brother. It can be a tough place and quite a few had breakdowns there (including my brother). The pastoral care leaves a lot to be desired. They haven’t done noticeably better than others career wise either.

I adored my (more relaxed) uni experience and have had a great career off the back of it. Try to keep her focused on the positives and in time, all of this will cease to have any importance.

And if your DD didn't actually apply, then she she really should be encouraged to snap out of being morose about not getting a place and regain some perspective on how well she's actually doing. It's not a healthy way of thinking to get into.

The best way not to get a university place, a new job or a promotion is not to apply in the first place. I've met many people in my career who chose not to apply for X, Y or Z and then became bitter and resentful of those who applied and succeeded. Never turn yourself down before someone else does.

I think the OP means that the friends have provisional Oxbridge offers. Firm offers will be dependent in their A-level results.

OP it’s very hard. DS is in Lower Sixth now and we’re starting to look at unis, but I’ve been quite struck by how traditional the Oxbridge courses are for his subject, compared to other unis where you can have year overseas or add on a language option. So I’m very much coming at it from this angle.

Thanks god, many of his friends are applying to the US unis or for medicine so hopefully we’ll avoid this scenario.

Look, some subjects are much much harder to get into than others at Oxbridge. Something like Classics or Norse and Anglo Saxon are far, far less competitive than Maths or PPE or Engineering - or Politics. When she’s comparing herself to her friends, she won’t be comparing like with like (unless all four applied for Politics)?

The friends may not even get the grades - nothing is in the bag yet. If it’s Maths at Cambridge that they’ve applied to, even if you get the grades, 50% fail the STEP aptitude test which I think is taken when A-level results come out.

If she really is obsessed with Oxbridge, she could wait until she has her A-level grades and re-apply for a firm offer next Jan.

Or she could do a Masters there later.

This is not the end of the world and obviously she’ll be fine. Try and point out the positives of her other courses - eg is there a year abroad included for any of them, for instance? This will be a far more valuable life experience, maybe.

Your dd needs to learn some confidence and resilience. Perhaps her school prides itself on the number of pupils who go to Cambridge/Oxford each year, but she needs to decide which uni is best for her.

If she's at a very competitive school now, Oxford/Cambridge may just be more of the same, and they are not necessarily the best unis for every course.

So many of us who went to CCHS here! It had a very toxic atmosphere when I was there re: expectations (and other things, eg I was fine academically but really had a miserable time because of lack of pastoral care, bullying etc, I had undiagnosed ADHD and ASD as well as a raft of diagnosed health problems).

I did go on to Oxbridge but was also conscious of those who felt really really down that they didn't, and others who had a horrible time generally because of the super pressure. I would never recommend CCHS-type schools for anyone other than maybe those who have 0 social or academic problems, because otherwise the atmosphere will be toxic for them. I wish I hadn't gone. I succeeded academically but not in any other way.

Also, I've been to Oxbridge (undergrad), an ex-Poly (second undergrad, different subject) and RG (postgrad MA and then again PhD). Oxbridge is great in my experience if you're an academically-focused social misfit OR fabulous at sports, but again no pastoral care to speak of (although again this was 20 years ago). The ex-Poly was super lovely and I would totally recommend it, and the RG was hit and miss (one department was so-so, the other has been amazing). As long as your daughter finds a good course and likes the atmosphere she'll do well wherever she goes.

I turned down Oxford to go to Bristol.
Best decision ever!

Cambridge and Oxford aren't even currently the best universities in the UK to study politics - St Andrews is. Oxbridge is certainly not the be all and end all, far from it.

I really feel for your daughter; I'm sure it's tough to think her best friends "made the grade" and she didn't, especially if she feels or has been told that she has the potential. BUT, it doesn't sound like they know for sure anyway, and Oxbridge really isn't the be all and end all. She hasn't failed anything. The universities on her list are great. I went to Oxford with 2 of my best friends and 1 of them was so utterly miserable, she often wonders how much happier she could have been in her second choice Uni. It was 3 long years for her, which she admits she only got through because her parents were so pleased she had got in, and we were up the road to reassure her and keep her going.

Your daughter has some brilliant opportunities in front of her, new friendships to make, and the world at her feet. Give her a big hug and tell her you're proud.

My sons go to non grammar high schools about 10 miles from CCHS and KEGS and both their schools send 2-4 to Oxbridge each year. If the kids want the opportunity to go the support is there without the pressure.

My youngest son (yr9) is super bright in maths, science and languages but autistic and we knew KEGS (the boys super selective) wouldn’t suit him. However he is interested in Cambridge for maths and we have been told he’ll get all the help he needs if he decides to apply. They have former pupils who went to Oxbridge come in to do mentoring sessions for the kids that are considering applying. Definitely no pressure.

I remember looking round CCHS with my daughter who observed: “I don’t want to go here mum, they are all like clones”. I had to agree - it was like a factory turning out little robotic academics.

What grades did she need for oxbridge?

I mean an A*AA is outstanding no?!?