To ask for your opinion on faith schools?

[Syrinx89]

That's it, really. In this day and age, it seems strange to me.

So, @mantarays, would you send your child to a failing faith school rather than the outstanding non-faith school?

I don't think faith schools should exist in the state sector. Most pupils attending them are not religious but many pretend in order to access better schools. These better schools should not select via faith as it causes segregation in society. If people are prepared to pay for something, that changes matters. Also, no private schools turn pupils away for being the "wrong" faith.

SoupDragon

Depends why it was failing. If it was safeguarding, no. If it was quality of education but pastorally the children were happy, yes.

It shouldn't matter why it is failing if education within your faith is so important. Especially given you don't care that children without the correct faith would have to go to the failing school in the reverse situation.

SoupDragon

But with respect, that isn’t your decision to make. I am entitled to send my child to any local school under the same admittance criteria as any other, PLUS I am entitled to apply to the local faith school because I am of that faith. You can disagree with that, but it’s how it is.

Ok, I’ve thought hard whether to post this as it’s very outing so I will need to NC but...
I should have maybe disclosed earlier that we are also a Catholic family with baptised children. I have taken a huge amount of stick for not sending my children to Catholic school. It made it very difficult to access the Sacramental programme through Church but we insisted.
I did not want my children to grow and learn surrounded only by children of their faith. My daily work involves the Prevent programme. No good ever comes from educating children only with their own kind.

I think why it is failing is probably important. It’s perfectly possible to think that the faith formation of your children is important but it comes secondary to their safety.

Neednewwellies

No stick here - that’s your decision. As it is mine.

It made it very difficult to access the Sacramental programme through Church but we insisted.

Fortunately, I think this is becoming less of an issue. I’ve only ever lived in parishes where sacramental preparation is organised through the parish office and held outside of school.

Stick from family, friends, parish priest and my children have felt ostracised too.

One of the reasons I am against faith schools is the admission criteria which effectively means non-catholics are in the minority. I want my children to grow and learn with as many people of different faiths as possible.

It’s my job to educate them in our faith. This is consolidated at mass. School is, or should be, separate. They are no less RC than children attending an RC school even if they’re made to feel that way.

Neednewwellies

You see, I don’t see “educated in the faith” as the issue. Of course I can take her to mass and see she understands the faith. That’s different to “educated within the faith”. That means she has a right not to be prevented from accessing her whole education within the faith, if that’s what we as her parents want.

But what part of ‘her whole education’ needs to be taught in a Catholic school? Because other than her religious instruction, which I believe should take place at home and in Church, I can’t see what else my DCs have missed out on. I went to Catholic school myself and felt I only had Catholic friends (school and Church) and I certainly don’t feel as though I knew anything of other faiths and cultures.

Neednewwellies

I don’t want to have a big debate with you about that. It’s a personal thing and I don’t want to sound like I am saying your DC missed out. I’m not. Just saying what I want for my child, and it’s only what she has a right to.

So I guess I’m asking what do you feel she’d miss out on if she wasn’t at a Catholic school? I’m genuinely interested for obvious reasons but I’m yet to be convinced my DCs miss out on anything important either to their faith or their general education yet I feel they gain so much from being educated alongside people from all walks.

and it’s only what she has a right to.

Yes, but that’s what many people feel needs to change.

For me, personally, it’s the education in how faith influences and affects all areas of life: friendships, mistakes, good works, forgiveness, redemption. It’s talking about the Bible during a Shakespeare lesson or during assembly. It’s a prayer before lunch and going to church with your class. It’s a holistic experience. And it’s not for everyone, and I have no issue with that.

But what "she has a right to" is something everyone is paying for. There are faith schools in my area that get fuck all funding from the church, yet still base admissions on faith. It's got nothing to do with belief in a god - it's just a way of keeping out the hoi-polloi and ensuring that the best education goes to a very select group. Even more than grammar schools - which are at least honest about it, and originally selected on some kind of intelligence - faith schools are private schools for those who won't pay for them. The rest of us do.

Neednewwellies

And they can feel as they like.

I'm not being authoritarian or telling anyone else what to do, just expressing my opinion that these schools don't celebrate diversity, and if they are accepting non-religious children anyway, then why not just be a secular school?

What evidence do you have that faith schools do not celebrate diversity? My DC go to a faith school and there are multi faiths and cultures in this school. What is evident in their school is a willingness to be tolerant and accepting of other people from all walks of life. I believe the teaching of RE as a mandatory subject for GCSE has also given my DC a better understanding of other faiths and how these have evolved. There is also lots of open discussion and opportunities to express different opinions in these lessons. There seems to be some perception that at faith schools one particular faith is rammed down the kids throats and this is absolutely not the case.

ExEUCitizen

It’s not. She has the same funding allocation as any other child from the government, minus what the Church pays. Less cost to you, not more.

Yes, but this is a discussion forum so saying you can think what you like doesn’t really lend itself to the debate.

these schools don't celebrate diversity, and if they are accepting non-religious children anyway,

As I’ve said, I am from a Muslim family and went to a Catholic School alongside Catholics, other Christians Denominations, Jews, Hindus and Sikhs. My family were regularly brought into RE to talk about Islam, Eid, how we pray etc. We were culturally diverse. I know from other families it’s not a situation unique to that particular faith school.

And yes, I would send my child to faith based school that didn’t have as good results as a non-faith school. It’s important that our faith is incorporated into education to me not an afterthought. I want a school where prayer is included throughout the day, where my child can participate in their faith on a day to day basis with their peers and educators, where the head of our place of worship is a part of the staff etc. Our local faith based schools acknowledge our holy days and feasts and worship is arranged around that.

By the way for a PP...not all of our Sabbath’s fall at the weekend .

Neednewwellies

I’ve given plenty to the debate.

My DC all went to the nearest faith school ( youngest DC still there), far from being very narrow it is the most culturally and socially diverse in the area although mainly one religion. Have some fairly wealthy families where the parents have said if the children didn't go to X school they would go private. Many children have extended families in most parts of the world and UK.
Although state supported the schools were originally built by the parish and the parish/parents contributed to upkeep. If the children weren't at that school they would be at another state supported school so would cost the same to the government.

I think also, deep down, I want my child to actively choose their faith as an adult rather than default to it because it’s all they’ve ever known. I do appreciate we’re in the minority, certainly in my parish.