To ask for your opinion on faith schools?

[Syrinx89]

That's it, really. In this day and age, it seems strange to me.

I don't want to "make a point" I want my children to go to the best school possible.

I don’t even want that, I just want mine and all kids to have equal access to all state schools.

And I don’t want my children to have to attend a faith school if I want a state education for them - which they currently are.

You have the right to send your child to the best school for which you are eligible. You are eligible for your child to be educated in a school founded and owned by Catholics unless you are one. Nothing the Government can do will change that. So this is dog in the manger.

The government certainly can change that if it chooses, if the Catholic Church continues to take taxpayers money to fund their privileged access, in the same way as it let the church off the hook for capital costs.

If the church wants to do the moral thing and fund its schools itself I can’t see that any would criticise. But as long as it’s taking taxpayers’ money for religious segregation, it should not expect those selfsame taxpayers to refrain from questioning or criticising the arrangements - particularly when the evidence shows that faith selection disproportionately excludes the poorest and most disadvantaged children.

There’s a lot of wishful thinking going on here. If you want your child in a Catholic school, have them baptised and go to church. That’s the bottom line.

@mantarays you didn't answer my question upthread about how you'd feel if Catholics were banned from your local school..

I don't really care about the history tbh, discrimination based on faith is not acceptable in my view.

If you want your child to have a faith based education you should pay for it.

Imagine any other scenario where discriminating on the basis of religion is acceptable.

Imagine the furore if a child was excluded from school because their parents were, say, practising Catholics.

But as long as it’s taking taxpayers’ money for religious segregation, it should not expect those selfsame taxpayers to refrain from questioning or criticising the arrangements...

It is not taking taxpayers’ money. That implies profit. The Church pays to educate my child. It is saving the taxpayer money, not costing money.

However, it is obligated not to interfere so as to prevent me educating my child within my faith. It can’t close Catholic schools down.

It could cease to fund them on the basis that it wouldn’t be preventing you from educating your child in their faith. It would just be declining to pay for it, thus no longer giving you and your church a cheap and lazy way out of having to educate your child in their faith yourselves.

BadCatDirtyCat

I didn’t see that question. If the school was opened by secularists and part-funded by secularists, I wouldn’t complain about priority being given to secularists. Non-Catholics aren’t banned from Catholic schools.

The unfortunate thing is the educational landscape is unfair in our country - which includes private schools and their amazing facilities, emphasis on sport and the arts. Faith schools, mainstream schools with ‘naice’ catchments and then big standard main stream. (I am avoiding prus, special and other specialist provision).
Children’s opportunities are limited depending on the area they live and the wealth that their parents have.

I have a job where I work in all the schools in my area. The Christian and Catholic primaries have the nicest, most welcoming and calm atmospheres of all the primaries I visit.

As a parent you are always going to want the best education you can give even if you don’t share the faith you can recognise a calmer atmosphere can give your child the best opportunity to grow.

If you want your child in a Catholic school, have them baptised and go to church. That’s the bottom line.

No, that's just ignorant.

thus no longer giving you and your church a cheap and lazy way out of having to educate your child in their faith yourselves.

That isn’t how faith works. School is an aspect of life, and faith is involved in all aspects.

It is not taking taxpayers’ money. That implies profit. The Church pays to educate my child. It is saving the taxpayer money, not costing money.

😂😂

First, taking taxpayers’ money doesn’t imply profit. It implies taking taxpayers’ money to fund part or all of the service.

How much does the church pay? As a total proportion of admin and capital?

(An answer that isn’t as obfuscatory and misleading as the PR on the Catholic Education would be particularly welcome).

That isn’t how faith works. School is an aspect of life, and faith is involved in all aspects.

I do, thanks, as someone who used to have faith.

And yet there are more people of faith in countries that don’t have state-funded faith education. Almost like a level playing field for all children doesn’t actually prevent them being educated in their faith.

JassyRadlett

Hold on: why does that matter? The Church is literally saving the taxpayer money, so before I answer that, could you retract?

Almost like a level playing field for all children doesn’t actually prevent them being educated in their faith.

Oh you are confusing educating about faith with educating within faith? No, they’re not the same.

Hold on: why does that matter? The Church is literally saving the taxpayer money, so before I answer that, could you retract?

The church is literally not saving the taxpayer money for Catholic academies and it is ‘saving’ a minuscule percentage of the running costs for VA schools.

And the concept of ‘saving’ money is a matter of perspective and how you monetise the significant advantage that the church derives from the huge state funding it receives for its schools.

Claiming this is ‘saving the taxpayer money’ rather than that the state is massively subsidising Catholic schools.

As I’ve said, I’d actually be quite happy, as a first step towards equal education, for the church to have priority on school places in proportion to the funding it provides for that school.

Oh you are confusing educating about faith with educating within faith? No, they’re not the same.

It’s a matter of perspective. Many manage to educate their children within their faith in other countries without relying on taxpayers to fund it for them.

Education doesn’t solely happen at school.

Sorry if it's been posted already. I strongly object to state funded faith schools and support this campaign
humanism.org.uk/campaigns/schools-and-education/faith-schools/
Where I live there are NO secular primary schools in walking distance. It's wrong

I'm absolutely disgusted by them. As a pp said, imagine if we had faith-based hospitals or doctors' surgeries that would only admit people of certain faiths. Christianity is superstitious rot foisted on us as a means of social control in a large and extremely hierarchical society.

I also believe that without them Christianity would have died a death by now. Christianity has always been linked to legitimising power, they are not offering the relatively low amount of extra funding they do out of the goodness of their heart. They do it because it keeps the faith alive - any form of spirituality is re-phrased as Christian beliefs.

It's also not as easy as 'find another school' - in some areas there is literally no other option but faith schools. Anyone who proposes that people should just move to another area where that is not the case in Britain is totally out of touch with the modern reality of living costs and lack of living space.

If you want your child to be educated within your faith you should pay for it. Religious discrimination has no place in education. It has no place in life in general either to be honest. Whether or not you believe in a "god" should have no bearing on your child's access to education.

I wonder how many "people of faith" would happily send their child to the failing faith school rather than the outstanding non-faith school.

They should be banned. All schools should be secular. If you want religious instruction, do it at the weekend.

I wonder how many "people of faith" would happily send their child to the failing faith school rather than the outstanding non-faith school.

There was a not-at-all surprising dip in the number of kids admitted under the faith criteria in my kids’ school immediately after it got a ‘requires improvement’ Ofsted. Apparently all those parents who were so firmly committed to faith education suddenly found that their local non-church school was ok after all.

According to the vicar church attendance also dropped noticeably.

It was basically on that basis that my eldest was offered a place there (at our most local school). Because we have a high number of faith schools that totally fuck up our catchments the only other school we would have been offered was a 40 minute drive away and also failing. So we got ‘lucky’ because the faithful aren’t so faithful after all...

How much does the church pay? As a total proportion of admin and capital?

IIRC about 10 years ago the combined contribution from the CofE and RC churches per year was about 23 million. Which is basically fuck all. I suspect it’s got worse than that since the push towards academisation.

Anyway, this is turning into a bunfight. Happy I have had my say.