To ask for your opinion on faith schools?

[Syrinx89]

That's it, really. In this day and age, it seems strange to me.

@Girlinterruption my point was that religion has no place in schools and I fail to see what it has to do with any subject children learn about. What does religion have to do with geography or maths?

If a parent has a faith and wants the kid to know about it they can do it home or send them to church

Religion has a huge amount to do with human geography! Demographic models, for example.

Religion is also really important in the teaching of English Literature, History, PSE, Politics and Philosophy.

@JassyRadlett may I ask why you sent your child to a CofE school?

Answered this more than once already - but I don’t mind repeating it. I, like many, had no choice if I was going to access a state education for my children.

Thanks to aforementioned shitty Ofsted, there were suddenly more than three places for local non-church-attending and non-siblings-of-church-attending kids, and my son got in. It, like the next three closest schools to us, is a faith school. A lot of kids come from outside the borough meaning competition for the non-faith schools is intense.

The school we would otherwise have been allocated is a 40 minute drive away, poorly performing... and a faith school.

I remember reading once that primary school children at a Catholic school were asked to sign a petition against same sex marriage. I sincerely hope not all Catholic schools are that bigoted but that article pretty much cemented my prejudice against faith schools as a concept. Religion can be used to spread narrow mindedness. An open minded, tolerant ethos is one of my most important criteria for my DD’s education and I would prioritise this over a school with excellent results every time. The faith schools in my area have very good reputations, but luckily there are other options. And I say this as a believer in God, not an atheist

Not necessarily. You are assuming all religious groups are equally demanding of religious schools. There would be no point demanding something for which there was little demand.

That’s true - I withdraw!

However I don’t withdraw that it is factually inaccurate to state that people have a right to have the state pay for their kids to be educated in their chosen faith.

The admission criteria for my church of England primary school are
LAC children
Children with EHCPs
pupil premium children
siblings
children of faith of any of the 5 main world religions religions ( christianity, islam, hinduism, judaism or sikhism)
distance
preference

Many church schools seem to be as broadranging!

Yes, absolutely people have no right to have the state pay for faith schools.

But then neither do people have a right to state education that eradicates equality and intolerance or celebrates diversity.

@endofthedays I get that religion has an anthropological aspect that might show up in subjects and a non faith school would still talk about that obviously but I don't get the faith aspect. Why does someone faith have any impact on schooling?

@JassyRadlett but the Catholic schools (that dominated the inner cities) did disproportionately cater for the poor who were excluded from the state system as they weren't wanted and people didn't want to catch fleas or Papism from them.

That's a horrible heritage to inherit from the country you were born in.

I grew up thinking we were disliked because we were Catholic and then when there was the big influx from Poland I thought no, must be wrong, these people are getting on fine. So I thought it was because we were Irish but then Irish people from Ireland were getting on fine here, too. It seems it's just the homegrown ones that are disliked. The attack on RC schools is an attack on communities and individuals - very much so. I would respect people more if they attacked the church institution and dogma in Rome but these attacks are designed to wound where it hurts.

Whilst there is a bishop in the house of Lords, the Anglican faith is safe enough and the attacks don't affect them on the same level.

But then neither do people have a right to state education that eradicates equality and intolerance or celebrates diversity.

Nope! Although I’d argue the current system already does pretty well at eradicating equality.

all schools seem outdated to me,the system is failed,broken and no longer works for todays kid,especially disabled kids

as a active home educator whos against the (not working anymore) school system i dont agree with any schools

and as a atheist im even more against faith schools

Yes, thanks. Although again, I’m not singling out Catholic education here; I find it quite strange that people don’t want to look at the overall system.

But surely you can see why people would be dubious about a secular schooling system? Especially Catholic's, given the history.

I also think it relevant that the state only relatively recently invested properly in state education in poorer/working-class areas. For years, those communities were neglected and underfunded, I thought. I always had the impression that grammar and some select state schools got the funding and expertise.

Working class communities on the whole, not so much.

‘endofthedays I get that religion has an anthropological aspect that might show up in subjects and a non faith school would still talk about that obviously but I don't get the faith aspect. Why does someone faith have any impact on schooling?’

I didn’t go to a faith school, nor did my children attend one. I would assume that for children who attend one, having faith in school creates a deeper faith and educational experience.

The kids would be part of a faith community every day and be taught about the faith by people who the parents think are more capable. It would also allow you to bring out shared cultural experiences in certain subjects.

@Girlinterruption I hope you don’t feel I’m engaging in an attack on Catholics and Catholicism - particularly as you don’t know my own religious and immigration background! - rather than disagreeing with the entire basis of faith schools in the state system in this country and the fact that I do think they are divisive and encourage exactly the sort of discrimination that has taken place towards Catholics in the UK (and in my own home country, though to a lesser extent).

But - I cant get past the fact that faith segregation of kids doesn’t help communities. That kids entering faith schools are already performing significantly better academically than their peers. That the state is sponsoring discrimination based on religion.

I’m a secularist. I don’t think that any faith has a place in providing state services. I’ve come from a country where doctors funded by the state turn people away from contraception and abortion and refuse to refer them elsewhere. Where the Protestants and the Catholics at the schools next door to each other were forbidden to talk to each other and the Prods only mixed socially with the Prods and the Catholics with the Catholics and anything else was suspect. Looking to the future, segregation based on past segregation feels utterly wrong to me.

What the hell has religion go to do with English, SPAG, maths, geography, home economics, French, pe anyway?

I imagine the governors and staff of some of the more committed faith schools would have a view on that
FWIW I went to an "ordinary" school but had the misfortune to be taught by a staunch member of a particular religion ... and trust me, they were capable of dragging it into absolutely anything

This is partly why I'm uneasy about even "factual" RE, as in "this is what some folk believe". It all sounds lovely in theory, but is only too easily subverted

‘But - I cant get past the fact that faith segregation of kids doesn’t help communities. That kids entering faith schools are already performing significantly better academically than their peers. That the state is sponsoring discrimination based on religion.’

Nobody at the age of 3 or 4 is performing academically. But if children this age entering faith schools are somehow more capable, why is that?

As a matter of fact, grammar schools are funded less generously than other types of secondary, on the whole. The mostly affluent parents make up the difference out of their own pocket.

@JassyRadlett No, I don't feel its a personal attack from you, Jassy - quite the opposite, but I do think that the faith school argument has been used to attack Catholics and in a particularly vicious way.

NI? Then we are in agreement as I do think separating children entrenches divisive thinking that exists long after school and creates problems.

To secularise the whole landscape is my answer but again, with the history we have in the UK and the relationship the Church plays with the state, I can't see it happening. With increasing numbers of non Christian faith families we cannot discriminate against other faiths and will have to regulate those schools, too.

I don't know the answer but perhaps discrimination and bias lies outside the of the school system and we need to address that first in society.

I'm currently experiencing some pretty horrible bigotry at the moment particularly of the anti catholic variety and I want to point out that as a baby you don't really have much say in your baptism and we can't now actually leave. That catholicism, like a lot of faiths is an accident of birth, as much as anything else and culturally, I think I am more Protestant.

As a matter of fact, grammar schools are funded less generously than other types of secondary, on the whole.
Only because they exclude the pupils who get SEN support and pupil premium.
The per pupil funding of Grammar schools is the same as every other in their areas

What would the point be of specifying "children of faith of any of the 5 main world religions religions ( christianity, islam, hinduism, judaism or sikhism)"?

In some ways that seems worse than children of the actual faith of the school.

Presumably because people who practise a faith are more likely to want a faith based education.

Because many families of faith prefer a church school, even though christian, to a secular school.

Should the UK have Sunni and Shia and Wahabi and Alawite Islamic state funded schools?
Should the UK have Zoroastrian and Shinto and schools for every other subsect ?

OR
Should the UK taxpayer fund non denominational inclusive schools that allow all children to learn together
AND
let church goers cover that part of their lives in the many hours a day that kids are not at school?

Plenty of schools do specify that though , just. As end says it’s to with wanting an education where faith is part of everyday life.

In my diocese I think most of the schools have:
LAC
Children with special medical/social need
Baptised
Siblings
Other Christians
Other faiths
Distance

Sometimes the social need and siblings criteria are in a different order.