To ask for your opinion on faith schools?

[Syrinx89]

That's it, really. In this day and age, it seems strange to me.

No you can still educate your child in your faith but the state doesn’t have to fund it.

I know. But in the case of secular education, atheists are the ones getting the education they want. People of faith aren’t (in general). How is that reasonable?

How so? Children in a secular system wouldn’t be taught that there aren’t any gods, any more than they would that following the Christian or Jewish or Hindu gods are the ‘correct’ faiths.

They would be taught about all faiths in an equal way - some people believe X, while others believe Y, while some don’t believe in any religions.

There would be no view taken on the correct belief system.

I find it hard to believe that removing faith schools would create a society that was more tolerant of faith.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude

But they still have to fund your child being educated according to your preferences?

Anyway. I am repeating myself.

Goodnight, all.

No they don’t. Their is no requirement under the HRA and European Convention on HR that the state funds Religious Education

There not their.

I know plenty of devout Christians and people of other faiths who are huge advocates of secular education for that very fact. One is the governor of a CofE primary where they have removed all religious admissions criteria because they feel they are divisive and didn’t reflect their community rather than benefiting organised parents who didn’t mind going to church for a couple of years.

They don’t see it as a threat - just levelling the playing field.

For me, removing faith criteria from school admissions is a vital step towards a fair school system. We also need to fix house price and academic selection. After that I’d like to see a fully secular system but I feel we should tackle the problems in order of harm.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Yes, sibling intake would be a factor.

I don't get why, when this is education, we are focusing on one tiny aspect of a bigger picture. What percentage of people from other faiths are at private schools? That is far more disproprotionate of population.

I get that faith schools, by virtue of their Christian nature in the UK, do not cater for the needs of non Christians however my teaching experience tells me that parents would rather send their non Christian children to a faith school rather than the stat school option that is available close to them. That tells me that the issue is the state school, not the faith school. My last teaching posts have been in state, non faith schools, and there is a difference in attitude and atmosphere - not always and sometimes in a more positive way.

I really think we have the argument the wrong way round here.

But they still have to fund your child being educated according to your preferences?

They really, really don’t.

As I said earlier, you got lucky.

You’ll have noticed that state faith school provision does not reflect the religious composition of the country.

@JassyRadlett

The problem with that is, as honourable as their intentions are, those people can compensate in other ways, fund tuition, etc and generally maintain that which gives them privilege in society anyway.

That's not a criticism - rather an observation.

My daughter goes to a faith school and honestly, the only faith bit really is that their end of term assembly is always in the church across the road.

They still learn about a range of religious beliefs, ways of life not just the one associated to their 'set faith'.

I fully accept that faith schools can be well run and nurturing places. However, it was clear where we used to live close to the centre of London the Christian largely European population ended up in the faith schools and the North and East African Muslim pupils ended up in the community schools. The community schools were 70+% EAL and the faith schools were noticeably lower on average. The same with FSM. It didn’t work towards community cohesion.

I can't get worked up by it really, and that's talking as an atheist who's DD will have no choice but to go to a faith school for primary if we don't go private.

I went to a non-faith school and looking back, I think it lacked certain values that would be central at a faith school. Like I say, I don't believe in God etc. But I do like the thought of DD growing up with some form of faith.

I don't get why, when this is education, we are focusing on one tiny aspect of a bigger picture. What percentage of people from other faiths are at private schools? That is far more disproprotionate of population.

Is that true, though?

7% of children go to private schools, while 28% of primary and 19% of secondary children go to faith schools, whereas the most generous estimates say that only 10% of the population attend Christian churches of all denominations once a month or more.

Do you mean that private schools are more divisive than faith education? Sure. Does that mean we shouldn’t tackle divisiveness in state systems where they exist? I’d say not - it’s definitely part of a bigger picture that needs a great deal of attention. But in a thread asking about faith schools it’s unsurprising the focus is on faith schools.

‘You’ll have noticed that state faith school provision does not reflect the religious composition of the country.‘

Religious groups can set up new schools and get state funding, can’t they?

I’m not convinced all religious groups are equally as keen on sending their kids to faith based schools anyway. My parents are very religious but didn’t send me to a faith school. I still want that option to be there for families who do want it.

I disagree with faith schools on principal as I feel it leads to segregation within society- however I have sent my kids to Jewish school because it is the best school nearby in my opinion. For secondary I am hoping they will not go to a religious school

My daughter goes to a faith school and honestly, the only faith bit really is that their end of term assembly is always in the church across the road.

I wish this was the case at my son’s! Religion is very strong throughout - a candle at the start of every assembly to remind that Jesus is the light of the world, along with prayers, God is in the school motto they recite every day, and plenty more. It’s pretty full on and while they do RE to educate about other faiths it is clearly in the ‘other people believe - but we don’t’ box. This is at a school that for a number of years didn’t fill its full faith quota (due to aforementioned crappy Ofsted that scared off the churcgoers. Apparently they were very disgruntled after the next Ofsted was glowing but they’d neglected their church attendance...)

I fail to see why your religion of choice has any impact on schooling. Those complaining 'but atheists get their school of choice why can't I?' If you believe in that teach them about it home or send them to church. What the hell has religion go to do with English, SPAG, maths, geography, home economics, French, pe anyway?
'Today we are going to learn about Oxbow lakes which god made'?
'Jesus loved the 8 times table'?
FFS.

Religious groups can set up new schools and get state funding, can’t they?

Of course - though it’s far from easy or straightforward.

I’m simply pointing out that if it was a ‘right’, per the poster I quoted, you would see a school system that is more representative of the religious composition of the country- but that was just an illustration of the fact that the ‘right’ doesn’t exist.

@JassyRadlett

My deep concern regarding the issue of levelling the playing field and looking at a secular system is that we will implement policies that do not harmonise with how this country functions. When we look at the Nordic countries and Finland's educational profile, we can't just import their design and apply it to our system without real structural change to the way this country functions as a whole (government, public services, funding, Church/Crown/state relationship). Any threat to those old institutions then produces a counter manoeuvre (as we have seen with Brexit) that sees people who want the hierarchies in societies to continue as long as they can see the rewards in their line of sight.

But you aren’t minding your own business, or attempting to provide a faith-based education yourselves. You are demanding state funding to do it - and thus it stops being purely your own business, and becomes something that all of us as citizens have an interest in.

Do you know the history of Catholic education?

The Catholic Church was the first provider of schools and universities in England...

Catholic schools make up 10% of the national total of state funded schools.

The problem with that is, as honourable as their intentions are, those people can compensate in other ways, fund tuition, etc and generally maintain that which gives them privilege in society anyway.

Totally agree! I know we’ll never have a truly level playing field. But even allowing for that, I think we should work towards a system that removes at least some of those inequalities rather than accepting because it will never be absolutely level, therefore it shouldn’t be more level.

‘I’m simply pointing out that if it was a ‘right’, per the poster I quoted, you would see a school system that is more representative of the religious composition of the country- but that was just an illustration of the fact that the ‘right’ doesn’t exist.‘

Not necessarily. You are assuming all religious groups are equally demanding of religious schools. There would be no point demanding something for which there was little demand.

@nakedavengeragain

'I fail to see why your religion of choice has any impact on schooling. Those complaining 'but atheists get their school of choice why can't I?' If you believe in that teach them about it home or send them to church. What the hell has religion go to do with English, SPAG, maths, geography, home economics, French, pe anyway?
'Today we are going to learn about Oxbow lakes which god made'?
'Jesus loved the 8 times table'?
FFS'

??????

I sthat what you think faith schools teach?

@JassyRadlett may I ask why you sent your child to a CofE school?

Do you know the history of Catholic education?

Yes, thanks. Although again, I’m not singling out Catholic education here; I find it quite strange that people don’t want to look at the overall system.

Catholic schools make up 10% of the national total of state funded schools.

Which is slightly higher than the proportion of practising Catholics - and I agree a lot less out of whack than CofE schools.

But again my issue isn’t with just Catholic schools - it’s with all faith schools in the state system.